Live data from Hacker News

Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

kirindave.tumblr.com

61–69 of 69 posts

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#61
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the primary reason I chose not to use SBCL (Lisp) to implement the game engine I'm building. I really wanted to, but SBCL leaks memory on Windows. When I asked their mailing list about how to fix it, the community was silent. Those two issues make it impractical to use SBCL to develop a product.

How do you prevent unfortunate GC pauses for your game engine? I have two conflicting thoughts lately: "I want to use Lisp for everything ! Oh but what about GC pauses in games?"

Lua is used in games often. It does have GC, with an incremental non-compacting generational GC. If you do get pauses then there are various methods of forcing GC on a regular basis, or just generating less garbage. It works well in practice.

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#62
Maybe this comment is already here and I just missed it, but languages naturally have life cycles, and thinking in terms of Ruby's life cycle might explain both some of your early enthusiasm and your current discontent. (I'm going to draw in broad strokes here and will probably get some details wrong.)

In 2002 Ruby was young: half-formed and exciting. It's problems didn't really look like problems: they looked like things Matz hadn't gotten to yet (and, even better, opportunities for other programmers to get to first). In late 2008 Ruby is established; the problems come with a set of reasons why they aren't likely to be solved. (The other problems were solved.)

This is natural and normal for any multi-year group endeavor, be it a company or a rock band: it starts with a world of potential. If it is one of the lucky few to survive for any length of time, it becomes mostly a specific reality, with a humdrum future. (More often it goes from having a world of potential to not having any future at all in short order.)

You cite as counter-examples Javascript and Scheme. Javascript is benefitting from the HUGE externality of being the client-side language for the single most important application category going. As for Scheme ... there's a paraphrase of "Brazil is the country of the future, and always will be" that's escaping me, but suffice to say that if the 73d time is the charm for Lisp's taking over the world, I won't be too embarrassed to have bet against it.

Ruby's momentum 2002-2007 was like Python's momentum 1999-2004 was like Perl's momentum 1993-1998: the momentum of a firework or a homerun. It was glorious to watch them rise; it shouldn't be sad to see them return to earth.

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Not to rub salt into this whole pile of hurt in the Ruby world lately ..." Any reason not to think that the vast majority of Rubyists really don't give a crap about this drama and are quietly, and happily, just going about hacking Ruby? In my little corner of the Rubyverse people seem quite happy, loving Ruby, and glad to be making a living from it. Those I know not paid to do Ruby look forward to their free time w…

Your response is to the wrong post. There were no broad claims about the Ruby community in general in mine. But if it's just passive aggression, change the record!

Um , I was referring to the article in question, not your post. Stop being so touchy. It's unbecoming.

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#64
post #46
post #4

The Ruby Language itself has plenty of warts, but the implementation problems are far worse. The MRI is awful, and 1.9 isn't much of an improvement at all. The best hope I see for Ruby's future is embodied in re-implementations like MacRuby, JRuby, and Rubinius. MacRuby could totally become the popular way to write new Cocoa applications. If MRI can be effectively displaced, Ruby can really break out of the "Perl tha…

What happened the to great potential offer by Maglev and Avi Bryant's presentation a while back about putting Ruby on the smalltalk VM? Was that all just vapour ware? I have not heard a peep about in since!

http://ruby.gemstone.com/

Now that I've closed my eyes the Sun has gone away forever!

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is to the wrong post. There were no broad claims about the Ruby community in general in mine. But if it's just passive aggression, change the record!

Um , I was referring to the article in question, not your post. Stop being so touchy. It's unbecoming.

[deleted]

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is to the wrong post. There were no broad claims about the Ruby community in general in mine. But if it's just passive aggression, change the record!

Um , I was referring to the article in question, not your post. Stop being so touchy. It's unbecoming.

I'm sorry. You're awesome really :)

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#67
post #64
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened the to great potential offer by Maglev and Avi Bryant's presentation a while back about putting Ruby on the smalltalk VM? Was that all just vapour ware? I have not heard a peep about in since!

http://ruby.gemstone.com/ Now that I've closed my eyes the Sun has gone away forever!

Interestingly, the ruby on rails podcast just released has a interview with one of the maglev developers.. Sounds like they are making good progress!

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like you to be correct but I don't think you are. Javascript with minor syntactic sugar for making DSLs, and with the stupidity around scoping ironed out, that might win out, though.

Why do you think I'm not correct?

For the reasons lined out here:

http://javascript.crockford.com/javascript.html

Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite language. I don't want to bash on Javascript. Most of the coding I do for fun is in Dashcode, which I never understood why isn't pore popular. But JS has big problems in public perception.

Stories on new things done in Ruby tend to elicit "cool, I can use that", but new things done in JS tend to elicit "what a waste, why use such a crappy language".

Re: Ruby and the Opposite of Momentum

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the "there's only one way to do it" philosophy of Python to be really important. That's the main thing that kept Ruby off my radar.

I feel it diverges a little bit, actually. In many cases it provides the "C style" way of doing it and the "functional style" way of doing it. Thankfully, in many cases one of them is much faster than the other, but it's not obvious to the novice and they will probably use the "C style" for years in ignorance of the alternative. Example: mylist = [] for char in "foobar": if char == "f": mylist.append(char) vs. mylist…

This particular example could be written as follows:

  >>> char = 'f'
  >>> char * "foobaf".count(char)
  'ff'
Or

  >>> [char] * "foobaf".count(char)
  ['f', 'f']
Post reply on HN