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Common mistakes in salary negotiation

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Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#81

Post by JohnFen »

azemetre wrote: post #18
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #2

How do you avoid wasting your time doing interviews with companies that have no intention of paying you what you expect without disclosing some form of salary range upfront? I've generally taken what I want to make in the role and added 20% to it as a starting point. While this might limit me, it also keeps me from doing 100 onsite interviews only to discover their max is 2/3 of my expected comp.

If it's a well known company, I've found sites like levels [1] to be very informative and accurate. Otherwise I always just ask in the initial calls, no reason to beat around the bush. If you know what you want, you can ask what the salary range is and decide if it's worth it from there. [1] https://levels.fyi/

I ask in the initial calls even when I already know what the answer is. Sometimes, there's a discrepancy between the two that can be a clue that you should look more closely to see if the company is a straight-shooter or not.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#83

Post by phpisthebest »

pc86 wrote: post #64
t0mas88 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes no sense at all for the company or recruiter to hide the range for you. Because they would be wasting their timing doing all kinds of meetings if your expected number is far above that range.

I don't think the company with the $120-150k range is trying to hide it from the person who wants $200k, I think they're trying to hide it from the person who wants $110k. If you tell them $200k they just stop talking to you. If you tell them $110k they write it down and carry along with the process and a little green $110k next to your name.

Actually they are hoping to snag the person that has extreme wage compression, working a 85K job that is worth 150K, who they can get for 95K...

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#84

Post by viking123 »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #72
jawns wrote: post #42

> Preparation and leverage means doing the work to make sure that you have multiple offers, that all your offers come in at the same time, and that you don’t tip your hand too early. Laying this foundation is 80% of the work. You’ll need to slow some companies down, speed some companies up, and hold off questions from recruiters until you’re ready to negotiate, and not before. Laying this foundation is largely unachi…

I’ve found this advice to be far too prevalent and largely unrealistic. Nearly everything about the interview process is out of your control. Getting multiple, competing offers to line up is extremely hard. It’s basically like saying “you win a race by being the fastest”. No duh! How you be the fastest is the hardest part.

Yeah it is so difficult to align these. I had two interview loops going and the other company was my clear favorite but the loop took like 2 months while the other was two weeks. So what I ended up doing is that I took the first job and now in a month or so I am going to quit and move to the other. It sucks but I literally had no other way because I cannot predict the result of the other interview and I cannot ask the other to wait freaking two months

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#85

Post by xyzelement »

noitpmeder wrote: post #51
leeny wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here. These ranges are typically wide because your compensation depends on your interview performance and perceived seniority/value add to the company. There's no way to tease this out before you interview, except that if you're looking for compensation that's significantly above the top of the band, it might be hard to get. (A little above the top is possible, and sometimes a lot is possible too... that's whe…

I feel like it's not a great look to say "I don't know enough about the role to give you my salary expectations at this point" while also asking "but what is the salary range for this position, given you don't know enough about me". Any thoughts on how to approach that?

// Any thoughts on how to approach that?

This may sound quaint but I find that being forthcoming and asking the question you have works.

During the latest job search, I would just ask for a range and say myself that "obviously where I fall in the range depends on my candidacy, I won't hold you to it."

If they tell you the range is something like $120K to $150K, it tells you what kind of seniority they are looking for - whether they know it or not - and how much they value people of that profile. If they tell you it's like $150K to $750K - then you know they are really wide open to range of experience and impact. Someone may say that a $600K wide range is meaningless but I don't think it is. If you're more junior you can count on being towards the left but still know they can afford to give you a bit more if they like you, and if you're very senior you can recognize that they have room for someone like you and have an appetite to pay. You'd be totally self-unaware to go into the process hoping for $750 and then landing at $150 but that's more on you.

So I am fine asking for a broad range - it's way more meaningful than no range.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#86

Post by fwungy »

When I sense I'm being informationally interviewed by a recruiter or discussing a job I realize I'm not interested in I offer up high salary expectations to push up the overall pay expectations for filling the position.

I kind of figure the market knows what my skill set is valued at and gambling for an outsized payout isn't likely to work unless you're interviewing at the top tier. When discussing a job I am interested in taking I push my tier to the upper end but leave room for discussion.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#87

Post by xyzelement »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #29
photonerd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of businesses post stupid ranges. Like, ok your range is $150-250k, fan-fucking-tastic, that’s completely unhelpful

It is very helpful, the bottom of the range tells you almost everything you need to know. I don’t care if the top is $1B per year if I am willing to accept $200k in order to decide which jobs to apply.

I think that's true when you're on the more junior side of things. When you're more senior, you're more interested in the ceiling. the $200k may not be enough but if you know it goes up to say $500k - you can consider interviewing.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#88

Post by gabereiser »

pc86 wrote: post #45
gabereiser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the marker is relative. What’s crap pay to you is a golden opportunity to others. Experience is relative as well. They may not have the experience and the company doesn’t care about that, only to fill the seat. Don’t take it personally.

Whether I am thrilled to take a $60k TC job or my absolute minimum is $400k that doesn't change the market in that 60k is insultingly low and 400k is well above the median (cue all the folks who think FAANG is the market chiming in about $450k TC juniors).

$60k is a lot of money in other parts of the world

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#89

Post by pc86 »

phpisthebest wrote: post #83
pc86 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the company with the $120-150k range is trying to hide it from the person who wants $200k, I think they're trying to hide it from the person who wants $110k. If you tell them $200k they just stop talking to you. If you tell them $110k they write it down and carry along with the process and a little green $110k next to your name.

Actually they are hoping to snag the person that has extreme wage compression, working a 85K job that is worth 150K, who they can get for 95K...

That's exactly what I said with different numbers.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#90

Post by irrational »

I work for a Fortune 100 company. Years ago they wanted to make sure that everyone in the same job was making the same amount of money (they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men). So they had an outside consulting group look at everyone’s salaries and adjusted them as needed to make sure they were all the same within $1. I ended up getting a $15k bump. They review it again every year to make sure nobody makes more or less than anyone else in the same job. The end result is there are no salary bands and no negotiation. The salary is what it is. You can’t even get $5 more dollars. They did this years ago and so far it hasn’t seemed to negatively affect us.
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