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Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

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Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#91

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

mvdtnz wrote: post #85
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it weird that the title of the article focuses on them so much, but it seems like the barricades there were due to the downed electrical wire or to keep people away from other areas that were on fire. Timed differently driving around the barricade one could have ended up in a worse situation than they already were. Hindsight is of little value to those who were making decisions in the moment, but really, "make…

A worse situation than burning alive in your car?

Remember - you don't have much information at that moment.

You could have driven right into a fire or into a tangle of live power lines. You could have endangered the lives of the road crew working on the power lines, or could have caused an incident that prevented the road from being opened at all, preventing anyone from escaping that way - you don't know when or if it was going to be reopened. So possibly worse? Absolutely. And keep in mind that the "burning alive in your car" wasn't a guaranteed outcome here - many people survived.

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#92

Post by swayvil »

massysett wrote: post #77
Pxtl wrote: post #74

> The workers were motioning for everyone to turn back toward Lahaina. They literally sent people to die, under the color of authority as working under county government. Will anybody face accountability? edit: I'm rate-limited but to provide an a historical analog: In 1911 the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire killed over a hundred young women working in the garment industry. The building's doors were locked by the o…

Accountability for what - doing their jobs in good faith with the best information they had?

Oh interesting case! Yes, do nazi rules apply?

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#93

Post by jmholla »

mvdtnz wrote: post #86
seafoam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, reading this article reminded me of Steward Brand, who drives around with earthquake tools in the trunk of his car.

What are earthquake tools?

I got this list from an article written by him[0]:

> a logger’s first aid kit, a flashlight, the new Army bayonet (designed mainly as a tool), a folding shovel, and Vibram-soled boots

Note, that article is from 1990. It's a recounting of the '89 San Francisco earthquake.

[0]: https://sb.longnow.org/SB_homepage/Earthquake_Lessons.html

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#94

Post by DennisP »

simlevesque wrote: post #65

What I get from this is: make your own rules

This reminds me of a great book: Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why.

The author looks at case studies (and some stats iirc) of a bunch of people in life-threatening situations, some who survived and others not. He looks at how they acted, gets into the psychology of why people act that way, and pulls out some lessons.

One of them was "think for yourself, don't just follow instructions." One example was 9/11, during which some people in the towers were told to just stay where they were. Some of those who ignored that instruction made it out.

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#95

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

omniglottal wrote: post #44
rewmie wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand what point you tried to make. Claiming "you're the one responsible for your safety" really does not say anything, specially as you do not have the context or situational awareness to know whether staying put or running away will save your life or get you killed. There are plenty of wildfires where individuals "responsible for their own safety" got themselves killed by driving straight into t…

What's realy weird is your conversation existing in this context of how the official's blockade would kill those who obeyed it.

But it's not - the article is not making the claim that only those who drove around the barricade survived. There were other survivors.

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#97

Post by Rexxar »

AlbertCory wrote: post #84
massysett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accountability for what - doing their jobs in good faith with the best information they had?

Yes, if "doing their jobs" means disregarding common sense and basic humanity. You don't need a written regulation to justify not doing that. If you're more worried about being dinged on your next performance review than saving people's lives, then yes, you should face accountability.

At which point you see them "disregarding common sense and basic humanity" ? I just see people completely overwhelmed by the situation that don't manage to find the good choice.

Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires

#99

Post by pookha »

bottlepalm wrote: post #69

Wow, within an hour that fire moved from the top of the hill to the bottom. Can't imagine. A literal blast furnace with those strong winds.

I was in Laihaina in mid-July. I've been all over the world and that was easily one of the most beautiful places I've experienced. Locals were incredibly friendly (bought a hat at Maui Hat). No hint of snobbery or localism. Very sad. The tour-guide that took us out to a tourist submaraine died in this fire. I saw countless kids with their parents on the beaches (we went to baby beach). I'm just a dumb tourist but I experienced profane sadness over some of the people I'd met that I know got totally wiped out, died or are ruined. Nobody had any time to react because most people were sheltering form the storm winds. The locals should have sounded the sirens to get people out of their houses.
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