Live data from Hacker News

Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

apple.com

51–60 of 183 posts

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#51

I hate to say this is a bad idea, but dividends signal to the market that you have no better way to spend your money than just giving it back to investors to spend elsewhere. Combining a stock buyback plan is smart at least because perhaps they can balance the two and counteract the dividend effect by buying up shares. In reality Apple could probably just become a private company by buying back most/all the public sh…

What are their other options other than simply accumulating cash and not being able to spend it versus a dividend. Having a war chest is nice, but at a certain point it's being wasted if you could basically buy any company on earth tomorrow if you wanted.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#52
post #44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Apple Board of Directors has a fiduciary duty to investors. If they take action that causes the share price to fall dramatically, thereby losing investor value, you can be pretty sure the Board will not last very long so yes it would matter.

that's only true in theory. the largest investors are usually pension funds and in general they approve whatever the board recommends.

Then Apple can put their space exploration ambitions up to a vote of the shareholders, who are the ones who actually own Apple's money.

Hence today's dividend announcement.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#53
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of a single business that Apple could buy (note: could buy, not 'look at the market cap and assume that is what it costs to buy the company') that would give it a level of control in an industry that the government would care about.

As I've said on HN several times, Disney. http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=brudgers+di... Disney would actually brighten Apple's halo, they have a devoted customer base which would accept the merger, and produce the most salable content in the world.

I can see that (and re: antitrust I don't think the gov would have a problem with an Apple/Disney merger either), but I think Apple see themselves more as the enabling platform.

Why take a risk on the downside of creating content when you can charge a 30% toll across all of it? Also a different type of business and model. It would also leave them in conflict with the other media companies.

What I could see is buying Netflix, but Apple would be in a better position to just build that from scratch with better terms (again, the toll for accessing the Apple ecosystem/platform/whatever-you-want-to-call-it).

The other one is Akamai - Apple has been a long-term customer (probably one of the largest), they are delivering a lot of content (and ever increasing) but don't have any real hardcore infrastructure in the way Google and Microsoft do.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#54

I hate to say this is a bad idea, but dividends signal to the market that you have no better way to spend your money than just giving it back to investors to spend elsewhere. Combining a stock buyback plan is smart at least because perhaps they can balance the two and counteract the dividend effect by buying up shares. In reality Apple could probably just become a private company by buying back most/all the public sh…

Apple's cash reserves grew about $30B last year, they're announcing that they're going to spend $45B over the course of 3 years. Assuming the current cash reserve growth continues at the same rate, I really don't think the market will look at the dividends as not knowing how to spend their money...

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#55

I hate to say this is a bad idea, but dividends signal to the market that you have no better way to spend your money than just giving it back to investors to spend elsewhere. Combining a stock buyback plan is smart at least because perhaps they can balance the two and counteract the dividend effect by buying up shares. In reality Apple could probably just become a private company by buying back most/all the public sh…

There are institutions, e.g. pension funds, that only invest in equities that provide a dividend. By offering a dividend, Apple is making its stock more widely available => more buyers => more shareholder value.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#56

I hate to say this is a bad idea, but dividends signal to the market that you have no better way to spend your money than just giving it back to investors to spend elsewhere. Combining a stock buyback plan is smart at least because perhaps they can balance the two and counteract the dividend effect by buying up shares. In reality Apple could probably just become a private company by buying back most/all the public sh…

That's how I saw it, however I think the remaining ~$40 billion is sufficient to continue a dominant position in where they excel. Things only evolve so fast, and unless they were planning on extending into specializing into other markets, there's only so much money that can be spent in one area before you'll potentially extend yourself into other areas too much and dilute expertise/focus. Apple's brand can't dilute too much either, though there are some areas I can see them being able to excel in - but they might not have the total foresight or incentives needed to maintain dominance in those areas, as experts already exist in those fields and they'd be competing for human resources - they do have ~$40 billion left + will surely make many more billions to use however they please.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#57
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I think that money is theirs. It's not part of their stock, it's cash that they have in reserve.

The board aren't the owners, they're just the board, the owners are the share holders. The company literally belongs to them, as does this money.

That is to stretch the definition of ownership quite a lot. Share holders have no rights to or control of any portion of the cash balance of a company that are not granted to them by the board.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#58
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've said on HN several times, Disney. http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=brudgers+di... Disney would actually brighten Apple's halo, they have a devoted customer base which would accept the merger, and produce the most salable content in the world.

I can see that (and re: antitrust I don't think the gov would have a problem with an Apple/Disney merger either), but I think Apple see themselves more as the enabling platform. Why take a risk on the downside of creating content when you can charge a 30% toll across all of it? Also a different type of business and model. It would also leave them in conflict with the other media companies. What I could see is buying…

The idea of buying Netflix doesn't get Apple into Asia, Continental Europe, or the Africa. It also doesn't do much more than spend the interest on $100 billion. Akamai would put even less of a dent in Apple's cash pile.

Purchasing Disney isn't primarily driven by the fact that they are a movie studio. The purchase makes sense because of Disney's existing media portfolio and the worldwide demographic which their properties attract.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#59
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, I think that money is theirs. It's not part of their stock, it's cash that they have in reserve.

The board aren't the owners, they're just the board, the owners are the share holders. The company literally belongs to them, as does this money.

That's true, but the shareholders have delegated the decision on how to spend the money to their legal representatives on the board. There's a strong presumption that the shareholders have elected board members whose decisions they support, so if the board makes decisions and the shareholders don't vote them out, those are presumed to express the preferences of the shareholders. Note that those decisions do not have to maximize shareholder profit. Shareholders can elect board members who commit to maximizing shareholder value, but they can also elect board members with a variety of other preferences and ideas about how to best run a company, or how to best spend its cash on hand. The board can legally pursue a wide range of strategies, and shareholder lawsuits basically never prevail (in the U.S.) absent some kind of overt wrongdoing, like secret side deals made by board members or something like that, or else shenanigans related to mergers and equity (e.g. some kinds of dilution).

(There's a persistent myth to the contrary, but it's not really rooted in law; see e.g. http://truthonthemarket.com/2010/07/27/the-shareholder-wealt... and http://hbr.org/2010/04/the-myth-of-shareholder-capitalism/ar... ... and even if that weren't true, courts are willing to grant considerable leeway to business strategies such as "building goodwill" and "increasing positive sentiment towards the brand", since courts aren't in a good position to second-guess a duly elected board on such points).

I tend to think of it as the board being in possession of the company that the shareholders have all but signed over to them; with shareholders retaining notional ownership, mainly enforced via the rarely exercised right to revoke the delegation of power if they get sufficiently angry.

Re: Apple Announces Plans to Initiate Dividend and Share Repurchase Program

#60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The board aren't the owners, they're just the board, the owners are the share holders. The company literally belongs to them, as does this money.

That is to stretch the definition of ownership quite a lot. Share holders have no rights to or control of any portion of the cash balance of a company that are not granted to them by the board.

The board represents and has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders. The term "fiduciary duty" is not abstract; it has legal force, hence the frequency in the news of another investing term: "shareholder's lawsuit".
Post reply on HN