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Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

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Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#21

Post by Retric »

rkagerer wrote: post #10
coldtea wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Historical revisionism. For more than 30 years prior to iOS, general-purpose computing platforms were mostly open with no vendor-controlled store. That's quite the historical revisionism. Phones weren't "general-purpose computing platforms" for the most part of those 30 years (Gordon Gecko's phone didn't have apps). Nor where they considered as such. And there were tons of capable of "general purpose computing" pop…

Prior to the iPhone there was Palm, which I would certainly call a general purpose computing platform, where it was easy to download and install your own pdb with no vendor restrictions.

There existed general purpose computing platforms, but there’s also been just as many if not more completely closed platforms. Selling ringtones only existed because of how closed most phones were at the time.

Palm OS 1.0 was nothing close to a general purpose computing platform. They didn’t even add TCP/IP support until 2.0.

If anything the ability to lockdown Palm devices was a major selling point to many customers’s internal IT systems. That’s something I think people arguing for open platforms are ignoring, some customers really do want closed systems for various reasons.

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#22

Post by HumblyTossed »

> Since the developer had no idea what it was supposed to have done wrong, it was unable to meet Apple’s appeal requirement of explaining what happened, and how it has resolved the issue. The appeal was thus denied.

If nothing else, Apple should fix this. There is ZERO reason to be anything other than 100% transparent.

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#23

Post by [deleted] »

pcurve wrote: post #9

> Apple pulls apps made by 6-person firm Digital Will. No actionable explanation was offered. > 5 months afterwards, the firm's lawyer sent a letter to Apple. > 2 months later, Apple reinstiated the app without any explanation. > The firm is now suing for damages & lost revenue. $765k.

[deleted]

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#24

Post by arrosenberg »

coldtea wrote: post #2

A sad developer treatment, and a sorry-ass state for a platform, but not related to antitrust law, much less a "textbook antitrust case". For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform, especially if that platform doesn't even have the majority of the relevant market. A company makes a platform or product so that they dictate the terms and if it's a marketplace, what and how it acc…

> For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform

Doesn't matter. Antitrust laws address competition, monopoly is just a subset. The Apple App Store is an 800lb Gorilla is the app space, ergo, subject to pro-competition laws. The app developer can't sell his app on iPhones via another channel, iPhones make up a substantial part of the market, and that's why those laws exist and apply in this case.

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#25

Post by CamperBob2 »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #22

> Since the developer had no idea what it was supposed to have done wrong, it was unable to meet Apple’s appeal requirement of explaining what happened, and how it has resolved the issue. The appeal was thus denied. If nothing else, Apple should fix this. There is ZERO reason to be anything other than 100% transparent.

There is ZERO reason to be anything other than 100% transparent.

The customary rationale, at least around here, goes something like "B...b...b...but if we actually document the rules and tell you what you did wrong, it helps the BAD GUYS!!!11!!"

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#26

Post by scarface_74 »

arrosenberg wrote: post #24
coldtea wrote: post #2

A sad developer treatment, and a sorry-ass state for a platform, but not related to antitrust law, much less a "textbook antitrust case". For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform, especially if that platform doesn't even have the majority of the relevant market. A company makes a platform or product so that they dictate the terms and if it's a marketplace, what and how it acc…

> For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform Doesn't matter. Antitrust laws address competition, monopoly is just a subset. The Apple App Store is an 800lb Gorilla is the app space, ergo, subject to pro-competition laws. The app developer can't sell his app on iPhones via another channel, iPhones make up a substantial part of the market, and that's why those laws exist and appl…

Luckily, we have a real judge in a real court in the Epic vs Apple lawsuit where the judge said that Apple isn’t a monopoly.

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#27

Post by scarface_74 »

bfdm wrote: post #18
stalfosknight wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phone has a market share of almost 70% in Japan, the location of the plaintiff. iPhone also has a market share of over 50% now in the United States, by the way. Neither one of those market shares are monopolies. > Historical revisionism. For more than 30 years prior to iOS, general-purpose computing platforms were mostly open with no vendor-controlled store. If you don't like the iOS platform then don't develop for…

Of course it's monopolistic. What standard are you comparing to? You don't need to have 100% of the market to exert monopoly control. Non-monopoly behavior would be users and developers having the choice to offer & install iOS apps outside of Apple's app store, but choosing the app store because the trade-off of fees is considered fair for the trust & platform convenience gained in exchange.

> What standard are you comparing to

A real judge saying that Apple isn’t a monopoly…

https://www.businesstoday.in/technology/story/resounding-vic...

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#28

Post by scarface_74 »

legohead wrote: post #13
coldtea wrote: post #2

A sad developer treatment, and a sorry-ass state for a platform, but not related to antitrust law, much less a "textbook antitrust case". For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform, especially if that platform doesn't even have the majority of the relevant market. A company makes a platform or product so that they dictate the terms and if it's a marketplace, what and how it acc…

Anti-trust also encompasses anti-competitive behavior, such as limiting consumer choice and stifling competition. It's a bit grey since Apple's marketplace is pretty unique. We need actual litigation to bring out clear answers.

We’ve already had it. Ask Epic

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#29

Post by scarface_74 »

someguy7250 wrote: post #14
coldtea wrote: post #2

A sad developer treatment, and a sorry-ass state for a platform, but not related to antitrust law, much less a "textbook antitrust case". For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform, especially if that platform doesn't even have the majority of the relevant market. A company makes a platform or product so that they dictate the terms and if it's a marketplace, what and how it acc…

Yeah you are right that people are applying the wrong laws and expecting results. Ideally we would consider creating new laws. But it is hard to explain why a company's control over its own platform can be harmful especially if competition exists. IMO the reason is that both customers and small creators end up losing in this scheme. They end up purchasing/making products often not for creativity or joy, but for neces…

From what I can tell, the company in question is just another ad platform pretending to be a game maker. Nothing of value is lost

Re: Japanese game publisher Digital Will has filed a lawsuit against Apple

#30

Post by scarface_74 »

taeric wrote: post #3
coldtea wrote: post #2

A sad developer treatment, and a sorry-ass state for a platform, but not related to antitrust law, much less a "textbook antitrust case". For starters, Apple is not a monopoly. You are not a monopoly on your own platform, especially if that platform doesn't even have the majority of the relevant market. A company makes a platform or product so that they dictate the terms and if it's a marketplace, what and how it acc…

Antitrust isn't limited to only monopolies. That is just the most easily discussed violation, no? For example, you are not a monopoly on your own platform, but working with anyone to raise the prices on another platform is illegal under this framework, as well.

That has nothing to do with being a monopoly. That’s collusion.
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