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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#621

Post by cooper_ganglia »

nikanj wrote: post #600
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't a matter of forcing people to pay taxes, and the fact that so many people in this thread keep going back to the same point is a frightening prospect to me. The US has plenty of our own issues with addressing social issues, but I'd rather the entire country implode due to social issues rather than the government forcibly controlling everyone's purchases and tracking their every movement for the greater good o…

We keep going back to taxes, because that’s what it’s really about. People get on the soap box for a passionate gospel about personal freedoms, facism and unalienable liberties - but actually they’re mostly mad that they gotta pay taxes for their nails & gardening now

For me personally, I think the discussion about taxes in this context is a distraction at best. How long before cash is banned altogether, in the name of "making sure everyone pays their taxes"? That doesn't seem like a solution, that seems like oppressing a populace while making them think it was their own idea.

Governments worldwide have been trending towards being more authoritarian, and I see outlawing cash purchases of any amount as an incredibly easy way to begin clamping down on the use of untraceable fiat currency.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#622

Post by mrguyorama »

toenail wrote: post #552
Scarblac wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in the US. My bank has 27 offices left in the entire Netherlands, and I don't think many of them take cash. I wouldn't even know how to get 3000 euro in cash into my bank account these days.

Ah well if you live in a country where the war on cash has advanced that much it's not surprising you see little cash usage.

Otherwise known as "Your society has actually advanced the payments and banking industries beyond the 60s that the US is perpetually stuck in"

People don't use cash because there are better options that better meet their needs. Most people's needs don't include "the government can't know I'm buying this"

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#623

Post by bonzini »

culturestate wrote: post #403
bonzini wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cash is the only fiat currency that actually exists There's also money orders.

I think GP means “exists” as in “doesn’t require a third party to complete the value transfer.” If you give me a $20 bill, I can immediately exchange it for a case of beer at the bodega with no extra steps. If you give me a money order for $20, I need to find someone who is willing and/or able to convert that money order into a $20 bill before I can buy my beer.

But money orders can be treated as fiat if enough people agree to do it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniassegno

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#624

Post by dangus »

Loughla wrote: post #366
dangus wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your second sentence/paragraph points out exactly why this restriction is needed: the only people who would ever in their right mind transact in that much cash are very likely to be either avoiding taxation (a.k.a. stealing from the common taxpayer), or keeping money off the books to hide illegal activity. The average person isn't affected by this type of government surveillance and potential overreach becaus…

I purchase, restore, and sometimes sell old woodworking machinery as a side gig to subsidize my own purchase of woodworking equipment for my shop. I have had multiple cash transactions above $3,000 every year that I've done this. Not to avoid taxes, not to keep them off the books, but because one of the parties has either the unwillingness or inability to take electronic payments. Elderly people, those located in rur…

It’s unwillingness, not inability.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#625

Post by Lutger »

macinjosh wrote: post #384
elric wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash Where (in NL) do you find farmers who routinely need to accept >3k in cash and are (somehow?) unable to accept electronic payments? Pretty much everyone everywhere can accept at least one form of electronic payments. That's a legal requirement for any business in Belgium, and I can't imagine the Dutch being that…

Why does the NL want to kick down at the farmers so badly? Don't they know where real food comes from?

How does this affect farmers specifically? In fact, it does not.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#626

Post by NoNameHaveI »

ghaff wrote: post #606
NoNameHaveI wrote: post #601

So, fun fact, in the USA state of Illinois , cannabis dispensaries are cash only. This is probably because cannabis is still illegal at the federal level. Of course, being such a potentially lucrative target for thieves, each dispensary has security personnel who will only grant admission after ID is shown. Interestingly, every one I have seen has an ATM on site.

In MA, they'll take debit for a fairly small transaction fee. I don't think they did initially when they started opening up. >Of course, being such a potentially lucrative target for thieves, each dispensary has security personnel who will only grant admission after ID is shown. I assume the state law just doesn't allow anyone under 21 to be admitted.

I want to say yes, that you must be over 21, but I am not certain. I do know that you can purchase with out of state ID, but you have a lower limit as to how much you can buy than if you are an Illinois resident. A friend is a regular customer and he shared that he qualified for a discount after purchasing so much over time. Personally, I rarely use cash much. I actually forgot the PIN to my debit card. Had the same $20 in my billfold for months.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#627

Post by ajmurmann »

raincom wrote: post #263
ajmurmann wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not stop transactions for drugs, but it might make laundering the money harder and more necessary

It makes money laundering harder for low and intermediate level drug dealers. Netherlands is a major importer for drugs: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Hamburg are major ports for drugs. Drug wholesalers in EU would rather transport millions of euros abroad, and use these euros in Africa in order to buy gold and other metals from locals. All of sudden, one ends with gold, sell gold back to refiners and get paid with bank…

"It makes money laundering harder for low and intermediate level drug dealers."

Can you explain why this alone isn't a win?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#628

Post by OkayPhysicist »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #166
SileNce5k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

Used cars, rent, nicer computers, there's all sorts of relatively large purchases that could be reasonably paid in a stack of large bills. Cash has a nice permanence to the transaction, where I as a seller don't need to be too concerned with the purchaser's background, as their proof of payment is the physical payment itself.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#630

Post by lost_tourist »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #548
dang wrote: post #501

We have deep respect for other languages but HN is an English language site, so the articles posted here need to be in English. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

How important is this rule really? Particularly when the title gives the main message. I ask because auto translation is almost perfect for at least all the European languages. I agree maybe there should be a bias towards English but this seems a reasonable exception here

It's very important for proper understanding of such things as translation is currently really not up to HN quality expectations just yet. Maybe in the future as AI gets better at it
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