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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#591

Post by zamadatix »

dmarchand90 wrote: post #548
dang wrote: post #501

We have deep respect for other languages but HN is an English language site, so the articles posted here need to be in English. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

How important is this rule really? Particularly when the title gives the main message. I ask because auto translation is almost perfect for at least all the European languages. I agree maybe there should be a bias towards English but this seems a reasonable exception here

IMO, regardless of the language of the article, if your alternative title summarizes the point as good as or better than the body of the article you're linking then it should just be a text post for discussion in the first place. If you're submitting an external site the focus should be on the content of that site. Encouraging posters to create their own main takeaways when posting and commenters to focus on the HN title instead of linked article seems like a net loss vs using the text post type.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#592

Post by ghaff »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #571
ghaff wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I got a RealID-compliant driver's license a few years ago in my state in the US, an existing driver's license and passport were not sufficient. I needed some document to server as proof of my current address, such as a utility bill. I don't remember what all the options were but, yes, some people--including kids getting their first driver's license or people sharing an apartment who don't have their name on a le…

In the Netherlands, the government already keeps track of everyone’s address. If you move, you have to register your new address with the municipality within a certain time frame. (IIRC 2 weeks)

The US is sort of loosey-goosey partly because we're not real big on getting registered with authorities and partly because the states have their own jurisdictions. So, if you're legitimately a digital nomad you sort of would have to do one or more things that are probably in a quasi-gray legal area so you can get ID and not be considered a tax evader.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#593

Post by jpsouth »

atemerev wrote: post #156

Here in Switzerland, I have a daily cash limit to put in ATM (there are ATMs allowing cash deposits), and this limit is about 50000 francs (52400 euros). Daily. Fully anonymous. There is no limit, of course, for in-person deposits (and withdrawals) at the bank counter. You can get millions in cash. And you can buy and sell gold bars anonymously. I love Switzerland. Not that I have that much money, but I love this kin…

I’m curious, aside from it going into a bank account (so it isn’t actually anonymous), my question is the mechanism of how the deposit works. In the UK we have deposit machines but you must put a card in the machine before depositing money (and my bank in particular make you input your PIN to make a deposit, so I just use the counter staff)

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#594

Post by Scarblac »

tomrod wrote: post #484
Scarblac wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less. Other way around (in the Netherlands, which is the subject), bank transfers are free but depositing cash as a business costs money. Paying cash costs the seller more and holding it has a risk of robbery.

Use of systems is never free. It might be subsidized, in the which case bankers would greatly appreciate more transactions on the system, but it is never "free."

It costs some money to have a bank account, bank transfers don't have a fee associated with them. Card processing costs a small fee.

Cheaper than handling cash though.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#595

Post by mrguyorama »

awelxtr wrote: post #174
mrmanner wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remember: A trader in the EU is not obligated to accept more than 50 metal coins for the same payment. I shall try and remember that.

This is the most disappointing rule ever. It makes my dream of returning money in thousands of 1 cent coins out of spite impossible

That kind of thing is sometimes not allowed even here in the US, precisely because it's a form of malicious compliance.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#596

Post by NorwegianDude »

sacado2 wrote: post #568
NorwegianDude wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ease of payment? Paying with a card is much simpler and faster. Take your card, phone or watch and hold it to the terminal for one second and you're done. It's not normal for payouts to take 5 days. In Norway it's the next day.

> Take your card, phone or watch and hold it to the terminal for one second and you're done. I'm not sure I'd feel safe if anyone could pay an amount above € 3000 after stealing my watch / phone / card and putting them on a terminal.

Well, you can just turn off payments on the stolen device.

As for the phone, you need to unlock the phone for larger purchases. The card requires a pin for larger purchases. The watch needs to be unlocked to after being removed from the arm.

So that is not something to be worried about.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#597

Post by cooper_ganglia »

nikanj wrote: post #580
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolutely wild to see people making comments like the one you replied to. Are people so eager to have Daddy Government monitoring their every move, deciding how they’re allowed to spend their money? Europeans seem to have Stockholm Syndrome, a fetish for authoritarianism of their preferred flavor. It feels like the entire continent is one big HOA, deciding what color you can paint your house, or what flowers yo…

And Americans have the opposite problem, where they’d rather have an incredible list of social issues than a government. I guess it comes down to perspective: is it fair to force everyone to pay their taxes?

It isn't a matter of forcing people to pay taxes, and the fact that so many people in this thread keep going back to the same point is a frightening prospect to me. The US has plenty of our own issues with addressing social issues, but I'd rather the entire country implode due to social issues rather than the government forcibly controlling everyone's purchases and tracking their every movement for the greater good of society.

Americans hate laws like this in the US because we've already sacrificed liberties for security with things like The Patriot Act, and all it got us was our own government spying on it's citizens communication. Expanding the scope of how the government is allowed to forcibly direct or interfere in your life is generally a bad idea, even if the people you support politically make it look sexy and cool.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#598

Post by pjc50 »

DavideNL wrote: post #587

It’s interesting to see people’s (mostly negative) comments, without anyone seemingly realizing any of the details behind it / the nuances / situation that lead to this decision. Most people apparently just respond to the first emotion that comes up…

Cultural differences, as well. People have different "threat models", usually based on historical incidents in their country. Which become embedded as political "traumas".

Extreme distrust of the government, especially the American distrust of federal vs state government, doesn't really make sense in many European countries. Especially when the Netherlands is a constitutional monarchy. The most pro-cash anti-surveillance Europeans are Germany and Austria (traumas of hyperinflation, Nazis, and the Stasi).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#599

Post by lettergram »

Scarblac wrote: post #264
lettergram wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they can monitor all transactions and turn off purchases based on what they want the population to buy. Too much meat for a week, sorry can’t buy more until next week. “But I worked for this money” too bad. It’s effectively “the company store”, except government (“by the people and for the people” - ie your neighbors) dictating what you buy. They just happen to also invest in the companies they direct you to.

They can already do that by rationing meat, like they did in WW2. Require that you have the correct stamps for buying what you want. Or probably introduce some horrible mobile app for it. No need to outlaw cash for that.

While true, they couldn’t block private trading of the meat on the black market. They can with this

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#600

Post by nikanj »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #597
nikanj wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Americans have the opposite problem, where they’d rather have an incredible list of social issues than a government. I guess it comes down to perspective: is it fair to force everyone to pay their taxes?

It isn't a matter of forcing people to pay taxes, and the fact that so many people in this thread keep going back to the same point is a frightening prospect to me. The US has plenty of our own issues with addressing social issues, but I'd rather the entire country implode due to social issues rather than the government forcibly controlling everyone's purchases and tracking their every movement for the greater good o…

We keep going back to taxes, because that’s what it’s really about.

People get on the soap box for a passionate gospel about personal freedoms, facism and unalienable liberties - but actually they’re mostly mad that they gotta pay taxes for their nails & gardening now

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