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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#511

Post by input_sh »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #468
ffhhttt wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you need to be convicted by a court and the government needs to be able prove the money was obtained from illegal sources? How is that unreasonable and more importantly what does it have to do with the €3000 limit discussed in this thread?

It can simply be seized. Whether a conviction occurs in court is largely irrelevant, because it's in excess of the 3000 limit that this law actually puts in place, and therefore de jure illegal. In the U.S., no conviction of the owner is even necessary, since the conviction is of the cash itself . This is likely coming to EU as well because it's a easy way for the enforcement state to increase its coffers and, in the…

> because it's in excess of the 3000 limit that this law actually puts in place, and therefore de jure illegal.

I don't get it, do you not understand the difference between possessing a certain amount of cash and making a single payment over a certain amount in cash?

How do you make a logical leap from the latter to the former?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#512

Post by JW_00000 »

_zamorano_ wrote: post #465
dangus wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The libertarian-minded tend to think that this kind of freedom is necessary to prevent government overreach and oppression, but in reality the bulk of the people making large cash transactions are either avoiding taxes (ripping off you, the taxpayer) or participating in organized crime (human trafficking, weapons/drugs/counterfeit black markets, etc). I would also argue that the only people making cash transactions t…

Like taxes are fair... You have the freelancers and small business struggling badly in my country, yet the goverment spends millions on nonsensical programs.

But tax avoidance/evasion is not a solution to that problem.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#513

Post by phanimahesh »

fearlessconcu wrote: post #238
MarkSweep wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can cross the US border with more than $10k, you just have to report it: https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/kbyg/money But I agree with the general principal that this should be inflation indexed.

> You can cross the US border with more than $10k To be honest, just because you can (legally), doesn't mean you should (do it). Carrying cash in the US is dangerous, and not just because of regular street thugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United... They do not need to prove anything to seize your money. Stealing from people carrying too much cash on them has become a national past time of…

Offtopic: I'm baffled that this kind of open robbery is completely legal and there's. Practically nothing that can be done to recover your money. This among other crazy "normal" things in US make me extremely wary of even visiting.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#514

Post by vladvasiliu »

lucumo wrote: post #460
motohagiography wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- paying a team of day labour workers - hay / feed delivery - combine/equipment rental - equipment resale - livestock - farm vehicle sales / repair It's probably fine, and I hear you can eat bugs.

> - paying a team of day labour workers It's illegal to pay minimum wage in cash, due to employers abusing and underpaying vulnerable people. (Any amount over the minimum wage can be paid cash, but there has to be a bank payment made for at least the minimum wage.) Source: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/aanpak-schijnconstr... > - hay / feed delivery > - combine/equipment rental > - livestock > - farm vehicl…

> Any amount over the minimum wage can be paid cash, but there has to be a bank payment made for at least the minimum wage.

Interesting. In France, you can ask for your wages to be paid cash, but only if it's not more than €1500. Minimum wage as of May 1st 2023 is €1383.08.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#515

Post by NorwegianDude »

chollida1 wrote: post #253
throwaway2037 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

> I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR? Privacy would be the biggest and most important reason and probably enough to end the conversation right here. But we can also include - ease of payment. Count out money and you're done. - vendor gets their money immediately, no 5 day hold like there could be on a check or money transfer -

Ease of payment? Paying with a card is much simpler and faster. Take your card, phone or watch and hold it to the terminal for one second and you're done. It's not normal for payouts to take 5 days. In Norway it's the next day.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#516

Post by missedthecue »

macNchz wrote: post #198

Frustrating to see more laws like this that can readily throw a wrench in the day to day lives of regular working people, when money laundering and tax evasion at a scale multiple orders of magnitude larger than this is so shamelessly visible in the form of nine-figure real estate transactions, art auctions, and Caymans-based shell corporations.

How does one launder money with a real estate or art transaction?

Say I've sold a great amount of cocaine and now have 5 million euro in banknotes sitting in my safe at home. How do I launder this money and make it 'legitimate' using those methods?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#517

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

culturestate wrote: post #403
bonzini wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cash is the only fiat currency that actually exists There's also money orders.

I think GP means “exists” as in “doesn’t require a third party to complete the value transfer.” If you give me a $20 bill, I can immediately exchange it for a case of beer at the bodega with no extra steps. If you give me a money order for $20, I need to find someone who is willing and/or able to convert that money order into a $20 bill before I can buy my beer.

Funnily enough, paper currency originated as something akin to money orders in the first place, and merchants started accepting them directly because they were much more convenient to transport and secure than the equivalent amount of coins. That's why the formal term for paper money is "banknotes".

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#518

Post by gunapologist99 »

ffhhttt wrote: post #489
gunapologist99 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done this myself many times. No one wants a check (especially not a probably-fake cashier's check) and no one wants to take the time to go to a bank, and why does the bank need to be involved or aware at all.

> and why does the bank need to be involved or aware at all In the EU you can transfer the money instantly using your phone. Not that I agree with the ban but a lot of the issues people are discussing here are only relevant in the US (checks? lol.. what is this the 60s?)

You can in the U.S. as well, with the security nightmare that is Zelle.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#519

Post by ffhhttt »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #506
herbst wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recently bought a car for around 4000€ in cash. I even went to a ATM to withdraw money first. Cash is, after all, the only instant and feeless transaction method. Why would I want to pay % fee or wait up to several days for a transaction like that? Imagine I bought the car on Friday afternoon. The seller would get the money earliest on Monday. Why would the seller simply trust me? So how would I buy a car on a…

> Cash is, after all, the only instant and feeless transaction method. Bank transfers in the EU are instant, and there are no fees for personal accounts. > Imagine I bought the car on Friday afternoon. The seller would get the money earliest on Monday. No, the seller would get the money before they could even blink. I have accounts at 2 unrelated banks. I have my online banking apps set up that whenever I get a depos…

Technically not true. Not all banks support instant payments even if they use SEPA.

EU is planning to make their support mandatory but IIRC this only be the case during “business hours”.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#520

Post by jkaplowitz »

ghaff wrote: post #159
jkaplowitz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it’s also not a mandatory 100EUR coin acceptance limit - it is left to the discretion of the trader.

In the US, a lot of places won't readily (or at all) take $100 bills. The US is sort of in bill and coinage denomination stasis (denominations are essentially the same as they were over 50 years ago) though it's probably largely academic at this point given that many people basically don't use cash.

Fully agreed about $100 bills - even $50 bills are often rejected at places with lots of counterfeiting risk and/or mostly small purchases.

Many people in the US basically don’t use cash, quite true - but in some parts of the country like NYC, many restaurants and convenience stores are cash-only or only accept cards with a higher price or a minimum purchase amount. So cash is still very commonly carried in NYC and similar cities. The pandemic made it rarer than before for cards not to be accepted at all, but it still happens, as do minimums and price differences.

In case you’re wondering about legality: the policies I describe above can be legal or illegal depending on the specifics, but both legal and illegal versions of them are commonly seen in practice.

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