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Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

moorfields.nhs.uk

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Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#111

Post by paulmd »

tomrod wrote: post #95
samhuk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd statement, as it is of course always the thinker that gets the attribution, i.e. the manipulator of tools and the interpreter of results. E.g.1: Galileo saw Jupiter , not The telescope saw Jupiter . E.g.2: Joe built the wall , not The crane built the wall . In this case, AI is the thinker, not a human, hence the phrasing. A human creating the AI does not remove the attribution either, just as we never say Joe's m…

AI does not think. It filters data to identify patterns (ML) or accomplish objectives (AI generally), or generates output based on prior patterns or rulesets under nondeterminism. It is a tool.

Sounds like the ideal employee - does what it's told, generates output based on prior examples and patterns.

the average code monkey cranking out web microservices is not exactly plato either here, after all. look at the existing codebase, try to mimic the style, can you have the PR by friday?

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#112

Post by paulmd »

amluto wrote: post #71
toomuchtodo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the developing world, this is likely a great option [1] [2] (although you need to account for additional optics for a smartphone ["fundus camera"]). For the developed world, it's likely this gets lumped into a traditional eye exam. The benefit is from squeezing more data out of existing imaging encounters using ML; think about these as data pipeline implementations. > High-resolution images of the retina are now…

I don’t see an iPhone or similar device getting OCT-like images anytime soon. They need special optics to image the whole retina (although I can imagine image processing hacks to work around that at the expense of exam speed), but they also require an optical system that’s quite unlike a normal camera to acquire an image at all. I think the real issue with OCT cost is machine utilization. An OCT machine is cheap as m…

> I don’t see an iPhone or similar device getting OCT-like images anytime soon. They need special optics to image the whole retina (although I can imagine image processing hacks to work around that at the expense of exam speed), but they also require an optical system that’s quite unlike a normal camera to acquire an image at all.

the star trek tricorder had attachments, for example the medical tricorder had an additional module and a detachable hand scanner.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Medical_tricorder#24th_...

the cellphone as the basis for the processing of various sensors, delivering software and connectivity, is essentially similar to this idea. Like when you have a thermal camera that connects to your cellphone.

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#113

Post by tristor »

DrBazza wrote: post #110

It's good that there's progress being made on Parkinson's, even if there's no cure. My father had it, and he's a definite data point for it being caused by trichloroethylene, as an engineer that worked with metal and degreasers, he was exposed to it for years. [1] https://www.science.org/content/article/widely-used-chemical...

Great. I am probably at risk as well due to exposure to brake cleaner which contains TCE. Thanks for the link.

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#114

Post by JimtheCoder »

hammock wrote: post #108
opportune wrote: post #69

Check out the actual paper: https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/W... There is significant overlap in the distributions of prodromal and control Parkinson’s patients even for the measure with the strongest signal. While some values for that measure seem to be almost conclusive markets of Parkinson’s, there are ranges in which the overlap is enough to make it not useful as a sole measure without…

>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your bra…

Deep brain stimulation is becoming quite popular as well...

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#116

Post by photochemsyn »

opportune wrote: post #69

Check out the actual paper: https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/W... There is significant overlap in the distributions of prodromal and control Parkinson’s patients even for the measure with the strongest signal. While some values for that measure seem to be almost conclusive markets of Parkinson’s, there are ranges in which the overlap is enough to make it not useful as a sole measure without…

> "In our report, thinner INL and GCIPL were also associated with a higher risk of developing Parkinson disease. However, it should be noted that the effect sizes, especially for the INL, are small, so the practical value for an individual as a marker of early Parkinson disease is currently limited."

Looking around a bit it seems that individual GCIPL thickness varies quite a bit even in healthy young adults, with the range exceeding the effect detected in the study. Practically this might mean you'd have to have lifelong GCIPL monitoring to detect the early onset of disease (and GCIPL thinning doesn't seem sufficient to diagnose Parkinson's, it occurs in other diseases like Alzheimer's and perhaps even as a natural outcome of aging).

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#117

Post by aradox66 »

hammock wrote: post #108
opportune wrote: post #69

Check out the actual paper: https://n.neurology.org/content/neurology/early/2023/08/21/W... There is significant overlap in the distributions of prodromal and control Parkinson’s patients even for the measure with the strongest signal. While some values for that measure seem to be almost conclusive markets of Parkinson’s, there are ranges in which the overlap is enough to make it not useful as a sole measure without…

>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your bra…

Dopamine is to help control symptoms, not to slow development of the disease. There is no use for dopamine treatment in an early diagnosis that precedes meaningful symptoms.

Lifestyle changes, on the other hand, mostly meaning exercise, significantly and reliably slow the onset and development of symptoms.

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#118

Post by [deleted] »

aradox66 wrote: post #117
hammock wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your bra…

Dopamine is to help control symptoms, not to slow development of the disease. There is no use for dopamine treatment in an early diagnosis that precedes meaningful symptoms. Lifestyle changes, on the other hand, mostly meaning exercise, significantly and reliably slow the onset and development of symptoms.

[deleted]

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#119

Post by hammock »

aradox66 wrote: post #117
hammock wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seems promising at catching a decent proportion of Parkinson’s super early What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s (besides lifestyle changes)? As far as I know the treatment for Parkinson’s is basically lifelong dopamine pills, which of course you build a tolerance to and which lose effectiveness over time, requiring ever higher doses. Meaning once you start on them, the ticking countdown of your bra…

Dopamine is to help control symptoms, not to slow development of the disease. There is no use for dopamine treatment in an early diagnosis that precedes meaningful symptoms. Lifestyle changes, on the other hand, mostly meaning exercise, significantly and reliably slow the onset and development of symptoms.

What does early intervention look like for Parkinson’s besides lifestyle changes?

Re: Eye scans detect signs of Parkinson’s disease up to seven years before diagnosis

#120

Post by flir »

orangepurple wrote: post #109
flir wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/205758/net-sales-of-dick... Not seeing much customer hemorrhaging in that graph.

Surprising if true. How do you dig yourself into a $250 million hole with ever increasing net sales?

In the UK, Wilko has gone into receivership because it's been borrowing at cheap rates, and the bill's just come due. It's widely believed that it's just the first of many.

No idea if that's what is happening with this company or not, I haven't chased any further than a revenue graph (and even that isn't from a source I trust much).

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