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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#481

Post by JW_00000 »

macinjosh wrote: post #384
elric wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash Where (in NL) do you find farmers who routinely need to accept >3k in cash and are (somehow?) unable to accept electronic payments? Pretty much everyone everywhere can accept at least one form of electronic payments. That's a legal requirement for any business in Belgium, and I can't imagine the Dutch being that…

Why does the NL want to kick down at the farmers so badly? Don't they know where real food comes from?

Why do you assume this proposal is targeting farmers specifically?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#482

Post by taylorius »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #427
ffhhttt wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant. Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Bank transfers are cheap and instant when both parties in the transaction have a working bank account, which means they had a residence where they could receive mail, which means they had government identification, etc.

Then people will surely use bank transfers voluntarily, eh? Why make them illegal?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#483

Post by piuantiderp »

pif wrote: post #449
motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

[dead]

[flagged]

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#484

Post by tomrod »

Scarblac wrote: post #341
freedude wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I buy a car, tractor, cattle, pump repair, implements, out-buildings, solar system installation, fuel storage, etc... Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less. I negotiate this ahead of time. Most people in business would rather have cash in hand than wait on the bank and pay their fees.

> Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less. Other way around (in the Netherlands, which is the subject), bank transfers are free but depositing cash as a business costs money. Paying cash costs the seller more and holding it has a risk of robbery.

Use of systems is never free. It might be subsidized, in the which case bankers would greatly appreciate more transactions on the system, but it is never "free."

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#485

Post by dijit »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #472
dijit wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be downvoted, but to answer this question with all honesty: 1) Disallowing a third-party in every single transaction you make, especially as 1a) Inflation means 3k now might be quite low in 20 years 1b) Banks themselves have been shown to be scummy 1c) Banks are a rare institution to allow outsiders into. 2) Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineli…

> Bank accounts themselves are not actually all that accessible; it's quite common for people to be ineligible for a bank account under random (but common) circumstances. Not in the Netherlands. Any adult (18 or older) resident of the EU has the right to a bank account, by law. > an interesting loop you can get into is that you need to pay a utility bill in order to get a bank account, yet you can't pay a utility bil…

You need proof of address too, it's not enough to have just an ID.

A passport is good, but you should also be aware that not everyone has a passport or drivers license. (for example: I didn't when I got my first bank account).

My first bank account was a deal my mother made with the bank where she acted as guarantor.

having a right to a thing is not the same as actually getting it; there is a lot of anti-fraud legislation that exists and must be complied with. The bank isn't just going to fully open an account with nothing but an ID. I can say that with absolute confidence after working in financial services (albeit briefly).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#486

Post by macNchz »

paxys wrote: post #392
yakireev wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

€3k today is a price of an expensive laptop or an expensive bicycle (e.g. a bakfiets). €3k in ten years will be the price of a normal laptop or a normal bicycle. How not being able to buy a laptop or a bicycle without asking permission from third parties is a good thing?

The point isn't that nothing costs €3k, but that regular working people rarely have €3k physical cash on hand. Money goes into their bank accounts via direct deposit and they spend it digitally.

In my opinion it's not unthinkable that an older person, someone without a bank account, or someone who works odd-jobs, might save cash in a drawer (regardless of whether that's advisable) for a long time for a larger purchase, like a used car bought in-person directly from someone else. Should we ban that?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#487

Post by input_sh »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #429
input_sh wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if they find more than 3000 eur in one place that is not pre authorized, they will confiscate it all and punish the people who had that kind of cash; it's becoming 'the law' Can you please not make shit up to be obsessed about?

No need to curse to make your point, especially since this is a burgeoning area of both criminal and civil law in western countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_forfeiture#European_Unio...

No need to add irrelevant links to make no point, there's nothing in the draft that prevents you from possessing >€3k.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#488

Post by stev-0 »

motohagiography wrote: post #127

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

This law is intended to make large amounts of cash less useful without killing the utility of smaller amounts. If large amounts of cash become less useful that makes money laundering a lot harder.

A black market for cash already exists. The people who buy it are called money launderers.

If you want the convenience of a government backed currency you’ll need to do so digitally which makes fraud investigation a lot easier. Don’t like it? Bad luck. This is where every fair economy is heading.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#489

Post by ffhhttt »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #418
ticviking wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still see this in rural America. Guys show up and transfer the title on the car for an envelope of cash and a signature. Same for livestock, butchering, services and so on.

I've done this myself many times. No one wants a check (especially not a probably-fake cashier's check) and no one wants to take the time to go to a bank, and why does the bank need to be involved or aware at all.

> and why does the bank need to be involved or aware at all

In the EU you can transfer the money instantly using your phone.

Not that I agree with the ban but a lot of the issues people are discussing here are only relevant in the US (checks? lol.. what is this the 60s?)

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#490

Post by bowsamic »

mdrzn wrote: post #242
freedude wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I buy a car, tractor, cattle, pump repair, implements, out-buildings, solar system installation, fuel storage, etc... Because I pay cash and keep the bankers out of the transaction it costs me less and it costs the seller less. I negotiate this ahead of time. Most people in business would rather have cash in hand than wait on the bank and pay their fees.

Sorry to assume where you're from, but I'm guessing America (either North or South)? In EU you could pay for all those things with a quick and free bank transfer for any amount, so you wouldn't even need to withdraw and travel with all that cash on you. There's no "bank fees", there's no "bankers" to keep out of the transaction, because they don't take any fee.

In Germany even with SEPA it's very common to pay for huge transactions with cash. People don't trust electronic payment for "critical" things
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