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Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

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Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#451

Post by worksonmine »

raincom wrote: post #263
ajmurmann wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might not stop transactions for drugs, but it might make laundering the money harder and more necessary

It makes money laundering harder for low and intermediate level drug dealers. Netherlands is a major importer for drugs: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, and Hamburg are major ports for drugs. Drug wholesalers in EU would rather transport millions of euros abroad, and use these euros in Africa in order to buy gold and other metals from locals. All of sudden, one ends with gold, sell gold back to refiners and get paid with bank…

Many of them aren't even transporting the money thanks to the hawala network around the world. Where I'm from otherwise legit exchange offices have been caught doing this and acting as a sort of bank for criminals, holding millions in safes.

Getting around the limitations of cash is no problem for those on the inside. Just like tax havens are only an option for the super wealthy who wouldn't really need them in the first place.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#452

Post by mistrial9 »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #427
ffhhttt wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant. Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Bank transfers are cheap and instant when both parties in the transaction have a working bank account, which means they had a residence where they could receive mail, which means they had government identification, etc.

having an address and ID is not so much a problem, it is keeping your address and ID valid once a few dozen people in authority can live for years by charging money for lots of reasons to renew them, and perhaps also problems for you if you do not behave.

This is as old as countries themselves. You must be intellectually dishonest to ignore these historically crucial patterns.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#453

Post by cooper_ganglia »

elric wrote: post #316

That's been the case for years in Belgium. I like cash, and use it whenever I can. But I can't say this limit ever affected me in any way. Largest cash transaction I ever did wasn't even half that. You can't even get your hands on that much with ease anymore. ATMs are capped at less than that. Most (all?) banks will refuse to hand you that much cash. Unless you run a business which accepts a lot of cash, the odds of…

That’s flat out unacceptable. It’s your money. If you walk into a bank and ask for all of it, they should have enough on hand to give it all to you for a normal individuals account. It’s not the bank’s money or the governments money to decide where it gets stored or how it gets spent. You worked hours of your life to earn that money, years of your life that you traded for cash that the government says you can’t be trusted with because there’s a chance you might be a criminal. That is in no way, shape, or form the sign of a well-functioning, citizen-focused government. That’s a government that wants to track its citizen’s payments more closely.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#454

Post by kergonath »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #166
SileNce5k wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

You’ve got it backwards. You need a reason to restrict freedom, not to improve it. So, the questions are which problem is this solving, is there any other way to solve it, and is it worth it. In most places, this is done without real discussion and people don’t care because they “don’t use cash”. “Lol terrorism” is not the most convincing argument.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#455

Post by frumper »

yread wrote: post #117
MSFT_Edging wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else would you buy a used car/motorbike from a private party?

Paypal, bank transfer, tikkie (in NL), nonmonetary transaction?

What do you mean the person I gave my car to for a PayPal payment used a stolen card?!

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#456

Post by bryanlarsen »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #444
bryanlarsen wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT it doesn't outlaw depositing >€3000 at the bank, it'll just be reported. And that's what farmers are annoyed at. If they don't deposit it, they can "forget" to report the income themselves, and cheat the tax man.

This doesn't follow; then they could just spend it in increments of less than €3000.

But it's harder to spend.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#457

Post by ffhhttt »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #427
ffhhttt wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant. Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Bank transfers are cheap and instant when both parties in the transaction have a working bank account, which means they had a residence where they could receive mail, which means they had government identification, etc.

You can get a functioning bank account usually in less than 30 minutes by downloading an app as long as you have a valid ID (no verified address is needed)

But yeah, if you’re not a citizen and don’t live in the EU it might be tricky (then again AFAIK bringing large amounts of cash from a third country is not that straightforward either).

What does this have to do with Dutch farmers, though?

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#458

Post by assbuttbuttass »

ticviking wrote: post #405
cianuro_ wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not from the Netherlands but from a small third world country: farmers around here like to buy things on spot doing handshake deals and carrying bags of cash. I've heard them buying a lot things from cattle to agricultural supplies and even vehicles. Mind you, this is a poor country. The middle class in the capital city can't even dream of making what these farmers make.

I still see this in rural America. Guys show up and transfer the title on the car for an envelope of cash and a signature. Same for livestock, butchering, services and so on.

Doesn't even have to be rural America. I bought my car for $6000 cash off Craigslist, and I'm in the bay area

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#459

Post by silvestrov »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #427
ffhhttt wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant. Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Bank transfers are cheap and instant when both parties in the transaction have a working bank account, which means they had a residence where they could receive mail, which means they had government identification, etc.

EU is working towards requiring banks to provide homeless EU citizens with a bank account. Some countries have already implemented this. https://koronapay.com/transfers/europe/en/blog/how-to-open-a...

For paper mails some shelters allow for picking up post and in some countries you can get the mail as "Poste Restante" (i.e. pick up at post office).

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#460

Post by lucumo »

motohagiography wrote: post #314
ilyt wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash, which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? Well, for one, they control cash production > It's not a lot of money, and given inflation, diminishingly so. This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash and farmers everywhere have a…

- paying a team of day labour workers - hay / feed delivery - combine/equipment rental - equipment resale - livestock - farm vehicle sales / repair It's probably fine, and I hear you can eat bugs.

> - paying a team of day labour workers

It's illegal to pay minimum wage in cash, due to employers abusing and underpaying vulnerable people. (Any amount over the minimum wage can be paid cash, but there has to be a bank payment made for at least the minimum wage.)

Source: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/aanpak-schijnconstr...

> - hay / feed delivery

> - combine/equipment rental

> - livestock

> - farm vehicle sales / repair

B2B transactions like that are done by billing. The other side wouldn't normally be very receptive to a cash payment.

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