Live data from Hacker News

Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

rijksoverheid.nl

391–400 of 802 posts

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass Are these migrants frequently making cash payments in excess of €3000?

If they want to pay rent or buy a car or any other thing of value, yes. Also, it doesn't matter whether it's frequent or not. "Let's ban migrants from buying cars because they don't buy them frequently" is not exactly the most convincing argument.

Unregistered migrants cannot buy a car at all, because they can’t register it and get a plate (details differ between countries, but legal residence is a requirement everywhere in the EU). Registered migrants can get a bank account.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#392
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being able to spend €3k cash is a wrench in the day to day lives of regular working people?

€3k today is a price of an expensive laptop or an expensive bicycle (e.g. a bakfiets). €3k in ten years will be the price of a normal laptop or a normal bicycle. How not being able to buy a laptop or a bicycle without asking permission from third parties is a good thing?

The point isn't that nothing costs €3k, but that regular working people rarely have €3k physical cash on hand. Money goes into their bank accounts via direct deposit and they spend it digitally.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a european but I do have an example. A few years back I purchased a project car in cash. I don't carry checks, who does anymore? And my bank would have given me grief trying to transfer an amount that large at once. I had tried before and it would trigger their fraud detection and give me headaches. Its good its there but can be a barrier when I'm just trying to buy something. So going to branch and withdrawi…

This seems a US centric problem. No one in Europe has carried checks since the 90s and large bank transactions are really a non issue as they resolve within a banking day and for a small fee you can usually do real time transfers too.

Or for free. One of the reasons Venmo and similar do well in the US but have almost no equivalent (and certainly not at scale) in the UK, for example, is that free, near instant transfer of cash from retail (i.e. ordinary people) bank accounts has been free for years. If I need to pay someone, I need their bank account number and their bank identifying number, and that's it; the money will be in their bank within sixty seconds, with no fee. I've told people mine so often to get paid that I've accidentally memorised it.

Even some people who historically took cash (such as household tradesmen) now often simply have the money transferred instantly on the doorstep, rather than have to carry cash around in their pockets all day. I imagine a similar story in much of the rest of Europe.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#394
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These purchases are already so bound up with red tape that making the actual payment via bank transfer is hardly an inconvenience. That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables. > Extortion is a crime. You are listing a person’s attempt to placate a criminal as a reason the state shouldn’t get involved? Correct, extortion is a crime in some locales. Note, I said hush m…

> That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables. Now it seems like you are resorting to the libertarian fantasizing that used to be so common on news-for-nerds sites. > Note, I said hush money, not extortion. Threatening to go public with a story when the other party might feel compelled to pay hush money, is already viewed as extortion. > Few as litigious as the USA _so…

>> That's a separate problem that allowing overeager regulation of currency utilization enables.

> Now it seems like you are resorting to the libertarian fantasizing that used to be so common on news-for-nerds sites.

As I see no reason it is a fantasy, I'll continue "resorting" to the reality that, frankly, the entity able to put me to death legally probably doesn't need to know my reasons and justifications for every action I take, respectfully. If that makes me a left-libertarian, then so be it. Respectfully, sounds like you might have some hangups with discussing points that have overlap in classical liberal philosophies, throwing out legitimate discussion with the baby and bathwater.

>> Note, I said hush money, not extortion.

> Threatening to go public with a story when the other party might feel compelled to pay hush money, is already viewed as extortion.

Payment for private services, like sexual services, are common in Europe and likely preferred to be kept private. I believe you would view this as legalized extortion.Yet, the desire for discretion exists even when the "threat" of information being public isn't necessarily blackmail.

> The general public who can be sure that taxes are being paid fairly and they are receiving the services they should. Again, not all countries are as culturally forgiving of tax evasion as Americans, let alone those places with even less controls over the flow of cash than the USA.

That's a weird way to spell "banks and financial institutions." There are plenty on controls already on the impoverished and middle class. A blunt hammer like this gums up transaction processing and allows for additional regulatory capture by banks and financial institutions.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#395

They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash , which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? There's the small matter of millions of undocumented migrants entering Europe who will be trapped in this now-illegal-cash underclass, and these financial oppression laws just incentivise and create criminal networks to facilitate basic economy.…

Have you ever been to the Netherlands? Many people don't even carry cash, never mind people buying goods from farmers. Card payments are so prevalent that some sellers at markets don't even accept cash.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to see that there's no limit where I live which is Norway. Hopefully, there are no plans to introduce one.

I am confused by your post. What are some good reasons to allow cash payments above 3000 EUR?

When I was 20, my bank has a daily limit on what I can spend out of my own account electronically because of reasons that I was told were related to account protection. I do not trust cash transfer apps at all and will never link them to my identity. I like to keep a small target surface.

Why should I not be able to spend my own money how I feel? It's mine.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#397
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can't control the black market in drugs, what makes them think controlling a black market in cash, which is a million times more desirable, will be any more successful? Well, for one, they control cash production > It's not a lot of money, and given inflation, diminishingly so. This is targeted at law abiding smallholding farmers where roadside transactions are often done in cash and farmers everywhere have a…

- paying a team of day labour workers - hay / feed delivery - combine/equipment rental - equipment resale - livestock - farm vehicle sales / repair It's probably fine, and I hear you can eat bugs.

I’m pretty sure the 3000 limit is not at all a huge issue in any of those cases pretty much anywhere in Europe and bank transfers are also cheap and instant.

Not that I agree with this ban. I really don’t but focusing on farmers specifically is very strange when farming is so heavily commercialized, especially in the Netherlands.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a Macbook Pro 16" M2 and a Samsung Odyssey Neo G9 at the same time from the same place.

And you clearly want to carry 3000+ EUR in your pocket than paying by card? Europe is safe, but I will definitely not walk around with that much cash on my person.

You're arguing that it should be illegal for him just because you don't personally want to do it? We wouldn't be allowed to do very many things if "I don't personally want to do that today" was a good reason to outlaw something.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#399

I was a juror for a divorce trial recently where the wife had a salary job while the husband spent their entire lives presumably accepting checks for contract work and cashing them without a bank account. So that portion of their joint income was to avoid the IRS and it of course made the settlement difficult because he didn't have any receipts for any of his work that was entirely done under the table. The plus side…

in rural Ohio a hundred years ago, I read that a man built his house, worked as the manager of a bowling alley in town, and raised a family of four with that income alone.

The modern condition is not like that. Is it government taxation, money lending, fines and fees, whatever else? Or is it more like a system of middle-men who expand theirs at the expense of yours, at every turn of the game?

A vague complaint of "moochers" lacks context. There are those that are less able, those that have less to look for, and those that give in to lazy and selfish ways.. all of that, but in different social niches? There is no simple answer, but if you outlaw the path for the ordinary person to have rights, something is lost forever.

Re: Cash payments above €3000 to be outlawed in Netherlands

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not my business but the government creates the money and it is their business. It always has been.

Not money, fiat currency. Something without intrinsic value adding nothing of value and resulting ultimately in the ability to control and monitor its usage for inevitably nefarious purposes. It always has been.

It's a medium of exchange, it doesn't need intrinsic value to add value.
Post reply on HN