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Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

newyorker.com

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Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#61

As always with these kinds of headlines the answer is no. Humans live in a symbiotic relationship with bees, we can not exist without each other.

> As always with these kinds of headlines the answer is no. The article is making the case that the answer is Yes. It goes over the reasons why the current way of Beekeeping (predominately for harvesting their honey) could be bad for bees and explains methods that the 'natural beekeepers' are using to make their pollination role more sustainable. From the article: > Most beekeepers’ colonies are much larger than thos…

> > In apiaries, queens often have their wings clipped, to interrupt swarming

This is nonsense. Beekeepers like to do "splits" (simulated swarming) because it increases the number of hives they have (and if they have too many, they can sell them), and mated queens don't and can't fly far unless the colony prepares her for swarming by making her lose weight for a couple of weeks before swarming.

> > and are routinely inspected, and replaced by newcomers, sometimes imported from the other side of the world.

This is true. Well, the queens themselves don't get "inspected" so much as the whole colony, because the beekeeper wants to see the queen laying lots. Re-queening is very much a thing, and quite frequent too.

> > Propolis—a wonderful, sticky substance that bees make from tree resin and that has antibacterial qualities—is typically scraped out of hives by beekeepers because it is annoying and hard to get off their hands.

I never scrape off propolis (which really is wonderful), and all beekeepers really should not scrape it off. But it's generally understood that propolis is very good. Indeed, there are beekeepers who stimulate production of propolis to harvest and sell it (you can definitely find propolis products out there), but only ignorant ones scrape it of because it's annoying.

> > Natural beekeepers leave their bees alone. They seldom treat for disease—allowing the weaker colonies to fail—and they raise the survivors in conditions that are as close as possible to tree cavities. They fill their hives with swarms that come in on the wing, rather than those which come from dealers who trade on the Internet.

True! Except that catching swarms is no guarantee that those are not "from dealers who trade on the Internet" (oh noes, not the Iinnnternet! and dealers!!). I've bought queens "on the Internet", though not from dealers but from beekeepers who do queen rearing. The problem with those queens is that they're often not very good, possibly because the larvae used for the grafts was too old, or because they didn't get enough chances to mate, or because of in-breeding.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As always with these kinds of headlines the answer is no. The article is making the case that the answer is Yes. It goes over the reasons why the current way of Beekeeping (predominately for harvesting their honey) could be bad for bees and explains methods that the 'natural beekeepers' are using to make their pollination role more sustainable. From the article: > Most beekeepers’ colonies are much larger than thos…

> replaced by newcomers, sometimes imported from the other side of the world Depending on how you view it that bit is actually wrong. You are specifically NOT ALLOWED to ship bees between e.g. Europe and North America. I think you can send sperm and maybe eggs (not sure if that's possible).

Yes, but the "from the other side of the world" stock is already here.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#63

No of course not. Paywalled article so just guessing.

The real headline could be more accurately put as "Is modern amateur/hobbiest beekeeping making bee's genetically weaker?" "None of us knew at the time how strong the selection would be in the wild,” Seeley told me recently. “It turned out that the bees had the variation needed to develop the traits to resist the mites.” While beekeepers were experimenting with chemical treatments and hive designs, the bees in the fo…

> Heres a small snippet that briefly explains some of the things some Beekeepers think amateur beekeepers do incorrectly.

Not just amateurs. Professionals too.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#64

There's a lot of weird assumptions in the article. "Normal" beekeepers try to breed varroa resistant bees as well, but still trying to keep the non-resistant ones alive too. It might be faster to just let nature deal with the issue, but that means losing an insane amount of hives. It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals or the forrest, or that dairy farms don't care about their cows.…

>It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals Is there a suggestion here that people who kill animals for fun/leisure care for them? In the same sense that one might use the word 'care' when referring to a loved one or a pet?

Yes... I mean you probably won't shoot the family dog if it's sick, you'd take it to the vet.

Arguably hunters don't think in terms of single animals, unlike farmers, they care about the overall welfare of the ecosystem so that it may support sufficient number of animals to allow for hunting. I don't know how it works elsewhere, but I'd bet that Danish hunters do more to protect nature than any vegan or vegetarian organisation and they almost always work with nature preservation organisations.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#65
post #46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>or that dairy farms don't care about their cows If you go by the conditions the majority of milk cows in industrialized nations live under that is a very obvious conclusion.

That's particularly a US problem, ours are not crammed like sardine cans.

Confirmed. Family relative in Sweden is a farmer, their cows roam around freely and go to the milking robot themselves when they need.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#66
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beekeper extracts almost all honey and replaces it with sugar. Because sugar is cheap and bees survive with sugar. Edited typo

> Beekeper extracts almost all bee and replaces it with sugar If you mean that the larvae combs are removed and replaced by sugar... most probably not. The idea is having as much bees by beehive as you can breed. If you mean that beekeepers remove "almost all" honey leaving bees to starve, this is an oversimplification. Any professional beekeeper know that will need to leave enough honey for winter. Leaving a minimum…

> If you mean that the larvae combs are removed and replaced by sugar... most probably not. The idea is having as much bees by beehive as you can breed.

GP almost certainly meant that beekeepers take all the honey then they feed the bees sugar-water. That actually is true of some (many?) beekeepers.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, it's not quite that simple. Honeybees produce more honey than they need for several reasons, mainly that a) they are natural hoarders, b) we've bred them to hoard even more. It's true that colonies can become pollen-bound and/or nectar-/honey-bound, and thus have too little space for brood. When this happens it's very likely that the colony will swarm off, leaving behind as few as 20% or so of the bees behind, as…

Yes, and you will have happy neighbors... I do understand that the natural reproduction cycle isn't quite that simple. However for "normal" operation some removal is beneficial and not "stealing", so long as they have adequate supplies.

Not only that, but what beekeepers do is give the colony more room as it fills the hive with honey. The bees don't realize they have enough and just gather more and more, thus ending up with a large surplus that the beekeeper is happy to harvest.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#68

There's a lot of weird assumptions in the article. "Normal" beekeepers try to breed varroa resistant bees as well, but still trying to keep the non-resistant ones alive too. It might be faster to just let nature deal with the issue, but that means losing an insane amount of hives. It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals or the forrest, or that dairy farms don't care about their cows.…

>It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals Is there a suggestion here that people who kill animals for fun/leisure care for them? In the same sense that one might use the word 'care' when referring to a loved one or a pet?

I guess there is the idea that hunters wish the animal species well so they can continue hunting. Tell that to the passenger pigeon, whose last existing flock was knowingly hunted, making the species effectively extinct.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#69

In a way, beekeeping is stealing nectar from wild bees. I pretty much never see wild bees in my garden anymore - they're all honey bees, and usually some human is keeping/farming them - effectively stealing nectar from my garden and that of thousands of my neighbours that we had left out for wild animals.

Stealing is a weird choice of words. Do you steal the oxygen that you breathe, or the water that you drink ? For it to reach your tap, it has been stolen by some fish's lake

Sir, please stop stealing my internet

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent has a point, though I never thought about it that way. In a way a similar case would be if you had a squad of squirrels that gather seeds and nuts from your neighbour's gardens, and you would then take and sell the bounty that they bring back.

If the bees are in a man made hive they need you to remove honey so that they have room to lay. If you don't they will leave and not all of that honey is going with them.

The neighbour example is about wild critters getting the harvest from your own yard vs. your neighbour running a farming operation and keeping the proceeds.
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