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Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

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Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#31

Post by paulddraper »

darth_avocado wrote: post #16

I would hardly call this normalizing. > Finding the IT workers they need to meet hiring goals or complete projects is a struggle for more than two-thirds of executives This should tell you everything you need to know about the market. Jobs are being added, but the quality of jobs has deteriorated. If 1000 people were laid off from Google and 1000 jobs opened up for contract roles in consultancies that pay below marke…

Part of the problem is that tech salaries jumped enormously in 2021/early 2022.

Settling back to something more reasonable is now a pay cut.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#32

Post by po8tin »

harryVic wrote: post #13
oxfordmale wrote: post #7

It will take until 2024 for the job market to recover. The ARM IPO will be the first bell weather this year to gauge confidence in the tech sector.

I highly doubt it. I hope I'm wrong but there were far too many companies that raised 100s of millions with no kind of business model during the 2021 bubble. Those companies would have to go out of business before the market can go back to exuberance again. As an example this company https://www.gather.town/ has raised $76 million.

The potential ripple effect is too big to ignore for much longer. 100,000 engineers is tip of ice berg when it comes to number of people feeling the squeeze.

Social media commentary has been trending towards outright hostility towards the rich and politicians, not just in the usual discourse hellholes like Reddit and Xitter, but even here (I have access to dashboards that model and weight discourse; technically proprietary though so I can’t divulge too much.)

Too many people with too much time on their hands, with little expectation of help from the system will foster sentiment it is time replace the system. I don’t disagree but think it should be handled intentionally, not waved off until last minute like we did with covid and climate change.

In the US there are only 1 million LEO but an order of magnitude more of people who stand to lose it all if austerity for the proles goes on too long.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#33

Post by Frost1x »

paulddraper wrote: post #31
darth_avocado wrote: post #16

I would hardly call this normalizing. > Finding the IT workers they need to meet hiring goals or complete projects is a struggle for more than two-thirds of executives This should tell you everything you need to know about the market. Jobs are being added, but the quality of jobs has deteriorated. If 1000 people were laid off from Google and 1000 jobs opened up for contract roles in consultancies that pay below marke…

Part of the problem is that tech salaries jumped enormously in 2021/early 2022. Settling back to something more reasonable is now a pay cut.

Something reasonable needs to factor in the waves of inflation that have also occurred. TC was definitely over inflation at one point but in many places I suspect people are operating at a pay cut still.

The never ending war on labor rates continues.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#34

Post by frozenport »

frfl wrote: post #12
mdorazio wrote: post #6

I’m having trouble reconciling this with several threads over the last few days lamenting how hard it is to get interviews right now. Different position levels? Different sectors within tech? Not sure what’s going on.

I asked the HN crowd's perspective just over a week ago [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37111560 I guess we can ask again. HN readers, what's it like for you right now trying to find a job?

Intern I just hired as a junior compiler dev said he got silence from all applications.

Guy had three prior internships, and great GPA from a top school.

It was a really hard to advocate for his hire because we could get somebody with ten years of experience. And this is even with my policy of ignoring anybody from Google.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#35

Post by zyang »

woodruffw wrote: post #21
calvinmorrison wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

being just a regular IT person with 15+years experience and getting paid fairly well for what the local market is, whats the chance of a normal person working at a place that pays $700,000 as a SWE? How do you even approach that? Does someone mid career have a chance to pivot?

Almost nowhere pays $700k for a SWE. These numbers come from stock grants or similar financial instruments; that money gets realized eventually , but it's not guaranteed in the same way that a fortnightly bank deposit is.

Yes stock grants is a big part of it but I don't think they are counting unvested stocks. It's your gross income on w-2.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#36

Post by maximinus_thrax »

darth_avocado wrote: post #16

I would hardly call this normalizing. > Finding the IT workers they need to meet hiring goals or complete projects is a struggle for more than two-thirds of executives This should tell you everything you need to know about the market. Jobs are being added, but the quality of jobs has deteriorated. If 1000 people were laid off from Google and 1000 jobs opened up for contract roles in consultancies that pay below marke…

> I’m talking engineering at Albertsons salaries.

Anyone from Blind can confirm that a tech job at Albertsons is going to be the peak of anyone's career.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#37

Post by paulddraper »

mdorazio wrote: post #6

I’m having trouble reconciling this with several threads over the last few days lamenting how hard it is to get interviews right now. Different position levels? Different sectors within tech? Not sure what’s going on.

Layoffs have disproportionately affected high tech, VC-funded companies, which (...obviously, given its sponsor...) dominate the HN base.

Walmart, Nike, Ford, etc have just as many IT workers as before.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#38

Post by sarchertech »

tuckerpo wrote: post #4

I'd hardly call it normalizing. The acceleration of layoffs has decreased, nearing a zero-crossing, but we've still got 100,000s of unemployed engineers floating around in the market.

BLS says tech sector unemployment is down to 1.8%. Given the size of the tech sector there can’t be hundreds of thousands of unemployed software engineers.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#39

Post by gedy »

the_only_law wrote: post #24
junon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconded. Plus what is up with recruiting culture lately? The ghosting is worse than online dating at this point. There was a time I was annoyed at the canned rejection emails but I'll be damned if I even get a one word "no" these days.

> The ghosting is worse than online dating at this point. Honestly, when I do several rounds and travel 2 hours to your stupid office, I’d hope I’d at least get a fucking yes/no.

Yeah I hate it. I do think folks should name names for companies like this. Glassdoor (ironically) did this to me, and they were the ones to reach out first.

Re: Tech jobs market normalizing as July unemployment dips

#40

Post by paulddraper »

Frost1x wrote: post #33
paulddraper wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is that tech salaries jumped enormously in 2021/early 2022. Settling back to something more reasonable is now a pay cut.

Something reasonable needs to factor in the waves of inflation that have also occurred. TC was definitely over inflation at one point but in many places I suspect people are operating at a pay cut still. The never ending war on labor rates continues.

> needs to factor in the waves of inflation

Yes, I would like that to be true, but inflation historically can and does happen independently of wage growth.

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