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The first conformant M1 GPU driver

rosenzweig.io

351–360 of 699 posts

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#351

I assume that this primarily benefits games and not any deep learning right? The most attractive aspect of Mac M1 is the huge memory boost. Might not be great for training due to the inability to distribute across multiple cards, but it makes for a great inference engine for stable diffusion, llama, and other large models.

There are two modern cross-platform GPGPU standards that Apple Silicon can theoretically use or implement - SYCL and Vulkan Compute.

SYCL is Khronos Group's vendor-neutral, high-level programming framework. Application support is limited, but hopefully with Intel's backing, the situation would gradually improve. Meanwhile, Vulkan Compute sidesteps the entire headache with compute shaders. But I'm not familiar with it in terms of application support.

SYCL can be implemented on top of OpenCL and OpenCL's SPIR-V extension. It soon turned out that this route is unfeasible due to prevalent vendor lock-in that's not going to change anytime soon, so it has largely been abandoned by everyone else but Intel and Mesa. Right now SYCL is usually implemented by backends to GPU vendor's respective APIs, like ROCm, HIP or CUDA. Doing the same for Metal would be very challenging.

Mesa already has experimental support of OpenCL w/ SPIR-V on Intel and AMDGPU, so theoretically it can be extended to Apple Silicon. Difficulty of implementing OpenCL's SPIR-V extension should be comparable with Vulkan compute shader (which also uses SPIR-V). However, currently OpenCL on Apple Silicon is entirely unsupported. The last time I checked, it's on the roadmap.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#352
post #297
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they necessarily denigrated the open formats but added and preferred their own proprietary image, audio etc formats as they gained market strength. On the hardware side I'm delighted by Apple's USB C/TB push (and Apple contributed a lot to those standards, esp based on what they had learned with Lightning) but note they revived the proprietary "magsafe" connecter on recent laptops (though you can still u…

> Apparently enough customers wanted it. Magsafe is genuinely a nice innovation that users missed. It solves the cord yank problem. But I do like having the option to use USB-C if I don't have the MagSafe cable.

Also USB-C absolutely sucks. The socket seems to attract dirt and dust in a way that prevents its proper working like no other.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#353

I wonder if support for OpenGL, Vulkan, etc will improve now that Apple is partnering with nVidia, Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft, etc around the OpenUSD rendering/animation/CAD/3D-scene format? Considering the whole schtick of OpenUSD is "one file format that renders consistently everywhere" (paraphrasing), I would be surprised if Apple doesn't use it as a means to cement more 3D software vendors into macOS land. It's r…

> 1. Apple conforms to the existing standards of OpenGL and Vulkan we see gaining steam for many film and game production pipelines. Read what gamedevs have to say about this, Metal is more appreciated than Vulkan > 2. Apple tries to throw its weight around and force devs to support their Metal standards even more, ultimately hoping to force the world onto Metal + macOS. Apple was part of the Vulkan working group, kn…

Vulkan is way better than Metal. Metal is simpler to learn. That is about it.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The iphone was an HTML device, loudly repudiating the proprietary (and terrible) Flash much less the crappy, mostly stillborn "mobile HTML" attempts. Skipping Flash wasn't so much an ideological decision as a practical one. At the time Steve Jobs listed a ton of reasons that they didn't implement Flash. Listed among them were concerns about it not being an open standard, inferiority to H.264, security and performanc…

That could have been overcome. The general crustiness of flash could not have been (from Apple's POV). Apple used to ship a dev app called "Spin Control" that would log stack traces whenever an app failed to drain its event queue in a timely manner (i.e. beachball). One time I accidentally left this open for an entire week, went about a bunch of assorted business, and when I came back every single stack trace had to…

Back in the day there was even a Mac browser plugin called "Click to Flash" that would prevent Flash from loading in web pages and draining battery like crazy. Made the web livable and more secure throwing Flash garbage ads everywhere.

Ah, the dev page for these: https://hoyois.github.io/safariextensions/clicktoplugin/

People also don't remember the huge number of CVEs that Flash had: https://www.cvedetails.com/version-list/53/6761/1/Adobe-Flas...

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#355
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employment is a poor proposition. Typically employees make poor money in comparison to what kind of profit they generate, that especially applies to IT. Anyone with a talent, should rather seek to incorporate and sell their services at fair price. Unfortunately in some countries, big corporations managed to lobby governments to put a stop to that.

The problem with that option is it involves many skills other than the primary tech-focused skill. Sales, marketing, accounting, negotiation, support, etc. Many technical people don't really want to handle those job functions, even if they happen to be decently good at them. Certainly you can hire people to do those functions, but you need to have a decently well-established reputation and enough work and income befo…

Yeah, it is just another example of specialisation/divison of labour.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine since they're on the receiving end, they'd know. Also if even one HNer tried to dox me I'd ban the lot of you, and I'm a relatively cantankerous straight white guy.

I get it. I guess i find it so exceedingly bizarre to dox someone, especially when known for being brilliant people - it probably doesn't register properly.

Doxing is an exaggeration of what it is. They have a very public online presence in the first place and made it pretty obvious, and they self-promote. It's just putting 2 and 2 together. The "block" on HN seems to have more to do with their gripes about inaccurate or negative comments than about attacks, unless I missed something.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#357

I wonder if support for OpenGL, Vulkan, etc will improve now that Apple is partnering with nVidia, Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft, etc around the OpenUSD rendering/animation/CAD/3D-scene format? Considering the whole schtick of OpenUSD is "one file format that renders consistently everywhere" (paraphrasing), I would be surprised if Apple doesn't use it as a means to cement more 3D software vendors into macOS land. It's r…

> Apple doesn't like any standards it doesn't control with an iron fist You mean like SCSI, FireWire, USB-A, USB-C, USB 3.x, Bluetooth, Qi charging, H264, AAC?

Just because they used them doesn't mean they like using them, just that they don't have the sway to move people to something of their own.

FireWire was developed by Apple and some other companies, as a competitor to USB, and lost out to USB.

Apple had their own video container and codec formats in quicktime, and those also lost out to others.

They definitely prefer to roll their own, they just don't always succeed in gaining enough market adoption (in the past) or they're told to stop pushing it to the detriment to their users (as recently with USB-c).

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#358
post #297
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say they necessarily denigrated the open formats but added and preferred their own proprietary image, audio etc formats as they gained market strength. On the hardware side I'm delighted by Apple's USB C/TB push (and Apple contributed a lot to those standards, esp based on what they had learned with Lightning) but note they revived the proprietary "magsafe" connecter on recent laptops (though you can still u…

> Apparently enough customers wanted it. Magsafe is genuinely a nice innovation that users missed. It solves the cord yank problem. But I do like having the option to use USB-C if I don't have the MagSafe cable.

I'm the other way around: I just want to carry a UB C cable or two. The cable was designed so wear and damage should accrue to the cable, not the connector in your device.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster was apparently a 100% Linux person previously, though. I’m pretty sure Windows was designed to heat up like that as a funny joke. For example on Reddit I see somebody complain that they only get 5 hours with my laptop model (zenbook flip 13) https://www.reddit.com/r/ASUS/comments/ry0nwb/the_asus_flip_... But it is pretty easy to get 14 in Linux I think, at least if you believe the battery indicator.

> I’m pretty sure Windows was designed to heat up like that as a funny joke Nah, it's common across all x86 devices. Even Apple's old lineup... which is why they went for M in the first place, Intel couldn't be arsed to deliver something power efficient.

I guess I find this troubling because it would seem to indicate that I spend multiple hours a day typing at a dead laptop, hallucinating that it is still working.

Re: The first conformant M1 GPU driver

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The iphone was an HTML device, loudly repudiating the proprietary (and terrible) Flash much less the crappy, mostly stillborn "mobile HTML" attempts. Skipping Flash wasn't so much an ideological decision as a practical one. At the time Steve Jobs listed a ton of reasons that they didn't implement Flash. Listed among them were concerns about it not being an open standard, inferiority to H.264, security and performanc…

Also, from a practical perspective, even Adobe never had a fully working (feature parity to desktop) way to actually load Flash on the iPhone. Apple kept asking for one: Adobe could never produce something that wasn’t buggy crap. There were some 3rd party things that sorta worked a bit , but they were not good either. Flash was bad on touchscreens for sure, but we’d have seen content adapt eventually anyhow, if it ha…

Very true. In case anyone is too young to remember, in the days of the iPhone 3G, it was somewhat popular to buy apps which would use a real browser on a server somewhere to render a browser session, complete with Flash, and stream it to you. It was very handy for those of us who played Flash games and needed to check in on our game on the go. (Think FarmVille, Cityville, etc.)
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