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Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

nature.com

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Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#201

Post by nyanpasu64 »

anon373839 wrote: post #97
otikik wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doing things you are fearing to do so that you no longer fear doing it. Careful with that assumption. I can see it completely backfiring. Doing the thing repeatedly can end up increasing the anxiety. If this route is taken, then "the thing" must be introduced very gradually and from a place of security. As an example, for an arachnophobe, it would starting with something like "draw a dot. Draw a line coming out of…

This isn’t quite accurate. Graded exposure can be a more manageable way to get to the end result (fear extinction), but reminding yourself that the threat isn’t real is a fear-neutralizing behavior that will limit the effectiveness of the treatment. The point of exposure therapy is to feel the fear and to do nothing about it other than let the feeling (eventually) climax and dissipate. (In fact, “lean in harder” can…

In my experience, over-exposure to terrifying situations leads me to full-blown panic attacks, emotional dysregulation, crying, sometimes being trapped in a situation miles from safety with no way to get back, and being traumatized for days afterwards and (very rationally) avoiding the situation in the future. The people who want me to put myself into fearful situations are people who want to hurt me.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#202

Post by Obscurity4340 »

j33zusjuice wrote: post #172
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've weirdly noticed a type of analagous mechanism in relation to anxiety where I castastrophize or engage in worst-outcome thinking and when things inevitably turn out ok, the relief from the incongruity has a somewhat "euphoric" and calming effect. I feel like it might be somewhat maladaptive and "addictive"

Does this all feel familiar? https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0 I don’t know if it’s always this way, but I create emergencies and catastrophes because I otherwise have no motivation to do anything. My back has to be against the wall to get me to act. It’s been a lifelong issue, I’ve tried to kill myself several times because of it, and I learned it was ADHD in the last month. 100% of my issues are explained by this. I nev…

That may very well be. Probably related to ADHD and traumatic lack of agency for much of life

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#203

Post by sitkack »

jyrkesh wrote: post #117
Aurornis wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me this is not necessarily dysfunctional. If it wasn’t dysfunctional, it wouldn’t be a diagnosed with mental health condition to begin with. I think this is a concept that is getting lost in mainstream mental health discourse: There is a big difference between anxiety the emotion and anxiety the mental health disorder . Similar story for depression and concentration struggles. It’s normal to feel anxious at time…

I've shared my experience in being diagnosed as ADHD as an adult already[1][2], but in this context, the net is that I fought even the concept of going on any kind of medication for a long time. I wanted to go hard on lifestyle interventions and all kinds of different "tricks" for working around my constant reshifting to different priorities. Ironically, while I love my therapist still, my psych has been an absolute…

I think it would be wise to disassociate your concept of yourself and your psych.

Are you on adderall, have you tested if it works for you?

If you are now medicated for ADHD which everyone with symptoms should at least experience. Knowing it even exists and that you can feel that way is extremely grounding.

If you are concerned with abuse, do some research and on the drugs they are recommending. I am hypersensitive to some drugs, so I tell anyone prescribing me the drug that I am going to ramp and if they have a problem with that. Most of the time they are and they like someone engaged in their own outcomes.

You probably need a combination of a lot of things, therapist, life changes, deliberate drug use, etc.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#204

Post by otikik »

ajani wrote: post #187
otikik wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you should have asked ChatGPT directly then: In the context of human behavior, consciousness and neurology, what are the mathematical equations that are relevant in order to model how a human brain works? Please highlight any equation that involves Physics in particular ChatGPT: Modeling the human brain is an extremely complex task, and it involves various levels of abstraction and different mathematical and com…

> While there are no specific equations that fully capture the intricacies of the brain's function.. That.

No equation “captures” reality, in any branch of science. They all “model” reality. Which means that some details (intricacies) are always ignored.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#205

Post by ddmf »

yard2010 wrote: post #116
ddmf wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have social anxiety and pushing myself to get out there leads to massive fatigue which makes me not want to go out and do that again, it can lead to a vicious cycle.

Exposure Therapy is a great method to deal with this in my humble experience, it has to be set up with sensible realistic boundaries though, and maybe start small, like doing an imagination ET, or taking medication to overcome the initial anxiety. Reframing this as a challenge with concrete goals rather than a problem helps too. I'm no expert though, and I advise you to talk to a professional that can help with this.…

Oh yes, I've tried, and I think there may be other reasons behind why it's not right - but at the moment ET isn't working for me, I just don't have the energy to spare.

20 years ago though yes, definitely, I learned to embraced the chaos (vs needing everything pre-planned) and put myself out there.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#206

Post by petesergeant »

mrguyorama wrote: post #185
jassyr wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I second escitalopram. 10mg changed my life.

It's really a roll of the dice. My mother was scared of me getting on Escitalopram because it gave her panic attacks but it was literally a silver bullet from me. 10mg a day turns me from a broken brain to a mostly normal human brain. It's such a lightswitch effect that sometimes I wonder if I'm overselling it to myself, and then I forget to get my prescription refilled for a couple days and I can feel that anxiety c…

Completely anecdotally it seems to be much, much more effective for GAD than depression. I did have a panic attack on the 3rd or 4th day of taking it (and interestingly the only one I've ever had), but I kept going. 10mg to 20mg was the light-switch for me: I was on 10mg for about 3 months with no noticeable difference, and then 15mg (climbing to 20mg) was exceptional. I have a graph from the time when I was recording my mood 10-30 times a day, and it goes from being all over the place to just being in a relaxed state.

Also: "Escitalopram was well tolerated and only 7% patients withdrew, due to adverse events in the escitalopram group, versus 8% in the placebo group" -- people with anxiety disorders have panic attacks when they start lexapro at about the same rate as people who think they're on lexapro but aren't!

Also I do recommend trying any/all of the others things I mentioned as an adjunct, they've all got some decent science behind them, and defense in depth seems like a good idea to me.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#207

Post by petesergeant »

riazrizvi wrote: post #146
petesergeant wrote: post #80

If you suffer from anxiety, and haven't tried any of the following yet, worth giving a go: escitalopram (with medical supervision, also 10mg did nothing for me, 20mg was life changing), ingesting silexan / lavendar oil, L-Theanine with your coffee, less coffee, less alcohol, propanalol (see a dr) instead of benzos for break-through anxiety, ashwagandha.

I personally have tried and agree with L-Theanine to reduce coffee anxiety without killing its alertness power, and anxiety certainly spikes a day after a night out drinking. But I think we are missing here the most important levers; 1) a steady regimen of well-scheduled exercises and injury-preventing recovery work, 2) a well-scheduled nutritionally balanced diet free of inflammatory products. Julia Ross’s The Mood…

I think I'm not qualified to talk about other people's mental health, but I haven't noticed much of a difference between periods when I exercise consistently and those where I don't. I'd always recommend people throw everything they can at chronic anxiety though, and consistent exercise is a win in its own right.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#208

Post by Obscurity4340 »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #202
j33zusjuice wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this all feel familiar? https://youtu.be/_tpB-B8BXk0 I don’t know if it’s always this way, but I create emergencies and catastrophes because I otherwise have no motivation to do anything. My back has to be against the wall to get me to act. It’s been a lifelong issue, I’ve tried to kill myself several times because of it, and I learned it was ADHD in the last month. 100% of my issues are explained by this. I nev…

That may very well be. Probably related to ADHD and traumatic lack of agency for much of life

I'm speaking autobiopically, to clarify.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#209

Post by ajani »

otikik wrote: post #204
ajani wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While there are no specific equations that fully capture the intricacies of the brain's function.. That.

No equation “captures” reality, in any branch of science. They all “model” reality. Which means that some details (intricacies) are always ignored.

Yes but resolution and coherence matters. A map that says "here be dragons" is not high resolution. A map that misidentifies or misses parts is incoherent. The brain is not physical (as explained above), and cannot be captured in a sufficiently high resolution map that only studies substance and its interactions. Since we have no access to the formwork, we will always have missing data, that hampers our ability to create such a coherent map.

Thank you for staying engaged, it's helping me see my position more clearly.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#210

Post by anon373839 »

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #201
anon373839 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t quite accurate. Graded exposure can be a more manageable way to get to the end result (fear extinction), but reminding yourself that the threat isn’t real is a fear-neutralizing behavior that will limit the effectiveness of the treatment. The point of exposure therapy is to feel the fear and to do nothing about it other than let the feeling (eventually) climax and dissipate. (In fact, “lean in harder” can…

In my experience, over-exposure to terrifying situations leads me to full-blown panic attacks, emotional dysregulation, crying, sometimes being trapped in a situation miles from safety with no way to get back, and being traumatized for days afterwards and (very rationally) avoiding the situation in the future. The people who want me to put myself into fearful situations are people who want to hurt me.

> full-blown panic attacks, emotional dysregulation, crying

I’ve been there, and I get it. But if you’re on the path to extinguishing Big Fears, this is simply what the process entails. It’s really uncomfortable - until it isn’t.

> sometimes being trapped in a situation miles from safety with no way to get back

I’m not sure what you mean by this part. If you’re referring to the symptoms above (panic attacks, crying, dysregulation), I think you’d be better served to refrain from thinking of these symptoms as a loss of “safety”. They’re feelings of intense discomfort - but not danger. And they’re temporary.

> being traumatized for days afterwards and (very rationally) avoiding the situation in the future

Avoiding the situation post-exposure unfortunately “un-does” much of the benefit of the exposure: it reinforces the neural pathways that make you feel a sense of danger in the first place.

This is not the pattern you went to be in. If you’re finding it too difficult to resist this, it might be a good idea to begin with smaller steps. That means doing less intimidating exposures so that you can be more successful in sticking with it until the fear comes down.

> The people who want me to put myself into fearful situations are people who want to hurt me

This is absolutely not true. No one gets sadistic pleasure out of the temporary pain that anxiety treatment brings. It’s just the price of getting better: to conquer your fears, you have to go all the way through them. By analogy, you can’t get physically fit without first going though some soreness and discomfort.

Based on what you wrote, I’d highly recommend finding a therapist who has expertise in exposure with response prevention. They will know, from having treated many others in your situation, how to design a treatment program that meets your needs and that you can succeed in.

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