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5 years ago Valve released Proton

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Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#11

Post by baq »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

Sad? A bit. Wrong? Not in the slightest. WinAPI is the stable Linux ABI now, that’s simply the status quo.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#12

Post by crickey »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #9
COGlory wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proton almost always runs better than Linux native. Windows is the only stable ABI on Linux, now.

Arguably, WINE has always been the most stable ABI on Linux. Good luck just getting a 5-year-old binary of any desktop file manager running on a modern Linux installation. I’m dead serious. Grab a copy of Nautilus or GNOME Files from Ubuntu 16.04; try running it on Ubuntu 22.04. It isn’t easy. Now imagine a game.

This is only because of the nature of dynamic linking. Have a statically linked executable and you should be fine. Not that it should be an issue to get old software to run you simply need to download the dependent lib versions. Anyone who sais this i feel hasnt worked very much with software, not that you should need to thats up to the one distributing the executable

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#13

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mistrial9 wrote: post #10
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. Very. Win32 ABI is the most stable and rock solid compared to the messy moving target of the Linux world, so recommending it is not entrench…

do you have first-hand knowledge of the structure of the code base that ports to both Linux and Windows for this particular game?

Valve and others have explained it already why in general terms that apply to all games on the native vs emulated situation, no need to go into the pedantic details of one specific game.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#14

Post by ndjdjfjfj »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

> relying on Proton would be better performing

I tried Overwatch 2 with Proton and performance was abysmal. My computer seemed to be melting and FPS was jumping all over the place.

It does 144fps on Windows 11 without sweating (same PC).

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#15

Post by extraduder_ire »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #8
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

>Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. Very. Win32 ABI is the most stable and rock solid compared to the messy moving target of the Linux world, so recommending it is not entrench…

Is it still called win32 nowadays? Because that name has existed for a very long time now, and early win32 stuff doesn't even run on windows without sysWOW64 stuff. I'm sure some versioning more granular than windows version names exists, but the extent of my windows knowledge is occasionally reading newoldthing.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#16

Post by vinyl7 »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

Game developers have stated that the support requests they get for Linux outweighs the revenue they get from supporting it. There are so many distros with different packages/dependencies, drivers, package managers etc. that it's very time consuming to keep up and not worth it.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#17

Post by hackyhacky »

ndjdjfjfj wrote: post #14
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #3

I don't know how common it is, but the AI War developers posted recently about their new game & said Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. I'm hoping this wasn't blanket advice Va…

> relying on Proton would be better performing I tried Overwatch 2 with Proton and performance was abysmal. My computer seemed to be melting and FPS was jumping all over the place. It does 144fps on Windows 11 without sweating (same PC).

GP isn't saying that Linux is faster than Windows; they are saying that a Windows app running under Proton under Linux is faster than a native Linux app running under Linux.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#18

Post by FirmwareBurner »

extraduder_ire wrote: post #15
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Steam recommended they drop their Linux port, saying that just relying on Proton would be better performing & a better use of time. I'm very curious how widespread this advice is. It's a little sad & ironic to me if Proton is now entrenching Windows as the only target platform. Very. Win32 ABI is the most stable and rock solid compared to the messy moving target of the Linux world, so recommending it is not entrench…

Is it still called win32 nowadays? Because that name has existed for a very long time now, and early win32 stuff doesn't even run on windows without sysWOW64 stuff. I'm sure some versioning more granular than windows version names exists, but the extent of my windows knowledge is occasionally reading newoldthing.

I don't know what the modern ABI is called, I only quoted what was in the back of my head so I could be wrong on the name but my point still stands.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#19

Post by gjsman-1000 »

crickey wrote: post #12
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, WINE has always been the most stable ABI on Linux. Good luck just getting a 5-year-old binary of any desktop file manager running on a modern Linux installation. I’m dead serious. Grab a copy of Nautilus or GNOME Files from Ubuntu 16.04; try running it on Ubuntu 22.04. It isn’t easy. Now imagine a game.

This is only because of the nature of dynamic linking. Have a statically linked executable and you should be fine. Not that it should be an issue to get old software to run you simply need to download the dependent lib versions. Anyone who sais this i feel hasnt worked very much with software, not that you should need to thats up to the one distributing the executable

Unless you statically linked GTK, possibly Xorg, and more into a ludicrous bundle size, you’d still be screwed.

As for “just get the libs,” that’s hilariously easier said than done. Try my example - it’s enough to make an engineer cry.

Re: 5 years ago Valve released Proton

#20

Post by FirmwareBurner »

idle76 wrote: post #2

Also check out Glorious Eggroll on Gihub for even better performance.

On the topic of GE, anyone try his custom Fedora distro, Nobara[1] and has any feedback on it?

Is it daily-drivable on a laptop without any issues, and stable long term without any breakages? Not just for gaming, but for daily entertainment and productivity task of those with one distro for everything?

I tried installing it a while back and found the default installer partitioning much more janky and messed up GRUB making my system unbootable, unlike other "Just Works™" distros like Ubuntu, EndevourOS or Mint where they worked flawless on multi-boot systems.

I'm not knocking it, I can imagine it's tough for a single developer to do all that and test everything, it would just be cool to know if it's gotten some polish now and how stable it is to daily drive.

[1] https://nobaraproject.org/

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