In combination with the transaction tax (currently discussed in the EU - [1]), this is a killer tool, to get more money from citizens.
Also: how is this supposed to deal with power outages? No food, when there is no electricity?
In Sweden, cash is king no more
51–60 of 86 posts
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
The parent means pseudonymous. Bitcoin is certainly not anonymous.
True, pseudonymous is the right word. You can start mining bitcoins without disclosing any personally identifiable information (if you obscure your IP address or connect from a public wifi network or something), you could buy bitcoins from someone on craigslist, pay in cash and have them sent to this account, etc. But the minute you make a transaction that links this account to you, all the activity on the account is…
Actually it's much worse than this, because while your identifying information is most likely not interesting, aggregate network flows are. For example, when a node tends to aggregate transactions, we can infer that they are a 'merchant'. If their public key doesn't correspond to a known business, we can infer that they are engaged in unregulated commerce and investigate. Nevermind the very real possibility of having an out-exchange refuse a transaction because several transactions back, the value was stolen or otherwise involved in nefarious deals ("chargeback 2.0").
If a payment technology can't be used to incentivize TOR nodes, it is not anonymous. Throwing around the word 'anonymity' when one means 'psuedonymity' does a disservice to everyone interested in actual anonymous systems.
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#53Why can't a thief force you to transfer money electronically just like the money was transfered for the church donation? (I am not saying that the church donation was coerced.)
This was a legitimate question. I'm sorry that someone took it otherwise.
Whether going cashless will dramtically reduce the incentives for mugging people is an interesting question.
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
The more you use your card the more chance of getting skimmed using cash for small purchases is a way of reducing your attack surface. I don't get why people care about this. Credit card fraud is the bank's problem, not mine.
To me it's common decency to not be negligent and I deeply dislike the opinion that "the bank will cover it". For starters it's irresponsible, secondly the cost goes back to the banks customers anyway. But also, one day the bank will say no. You didn't do what we expect of you, we will not give you anything. This is not that uncommon and if it happens you might loose a lot (although to keep good faith and keep people…
Leaving your credit card sitting out unattended on a park bench is negligent. Buying things with a credit card is not negligence.
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#55As a Swede I am used to always being able to pay with my card; Heading to the bar? No need to withdraw cash. Grabbing a taxi home late at night? No need to worry if you have enough cash, they accept cards. To add to this is that electronic transfer of money to both businesses and private citizens is quick and easy. If you transfer within the same bank it is instant and takes up to a day, depending on the hour, to tra…
As a Swede, I always bring cash. Heading to the bar? Already have cash in the wallet. Grabbing a taxi home late at night? No need to worry that I don't have enough cash on me. Store temporarily only accept cash due to some error? Replace panic with nonexistent queue. Regardless of whether you always pay cash or always pay with a card and regardless of whether you value privacy or not - you should always, in my opnion…
Out of your three examples, only the last one is an argument for cash over cards. Is that the reason why you prefer cash? Or is it the privacy thing?
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#56I would have to trust my government a whole lot more than I do to be comfortable with this - and then trust that my government isn't going to change over the course of my lifetime. Surely Swedes buy drugs and cheat on their taxes, just like the rest of us. Even if you don't - why wouldn't you want to ensure you can quietly conduct an illegal transaction, should a currently unforseen need arise in the future? Getting…
This problem is already (partly) solved by exchange in digital gold currency. Pecunix and e-gold are two such services.
I don't know any drug dealers who take that.
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
The more you use your card the more chance of getting skimmed using cash for small purchases is a way of reducing your attack surface. I don't get why people care about this. Credit card fraud is the bank's problem, not mine.
To me it's common decency to not be negligent and I deeply dislike the opinion that "the bank will cover it". For starters it's irresponsible, secondly the cost goes back to the banks customers anyway. But also, one day the bank will say no. You didn't do what we expect of you, we will not give you anything. This is not that uncommon and if it happens you might loose a lot (although to keep good faith and keep people…
There is also the risk that they steal small amounts from you and you don't realize it. This won't happen if you check your statements but I don't always and there are enough small charges for me not to notice if I was charged a small amount extra every month.
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#58So in a few years, the govt. will get a report at the end of the year showing that model Swede citizen has bought more than the recommended amount of meat or alcohol or, heavens forbid, has bought tobacco products. And not enough fruit/veggies. So the friendly Swede govt. will "recommend" that model Swede citizen fork over an insane amount of money and "optionally" attend re-education classes in healthy living. Can you spell Big, Big, Big Brother?
Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#59Re: In Sweden, cash is king no more
#60Do the Visas and Mastercards of Sweden still get their cut of every transaction? What a great way for these companies to solidify their corner of the market. Here is what I want: a way to do electronic transactions anonymously and cheaper that the current options. How do you do this while combating fraud?
Yes, Visa, MC and Amex take a cut. This infuriated shopowners to no end when they raised their tariffs, prompting a wave of "no charges under 50kr" or "3kr extra if you're paying with card (under x kr)"
No, the banks take a cut. The interchange fee that goes to the networks (VISA & MC) is very low (don't know the exact amount).
AMEX is another beast. AMEX is not sold through banks and AMEX can therefore set their own very high rates. This has caused many retailers to stop accepting AMEX altogether. IKEA being a good example of such a retailer.