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Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

nature.com

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Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#151

Post by Lalabadie »

chrbr wrote: post #128
smeej wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, Internal Family Systems therapy, which applies techniques from family systems therapy to the internal world, treats this as a "both-and." You do have a core Self, but one of the primary things it does is lead and direct and serve as the primary attachment figure for all the other parts of you, which are conceptualized as individual, separate characters with their own history, needs, desires, wounds, an…

Is there a commonly-recommended introductory text for IFS? I've always found it interesting, and it resonates with me, given my internal monologue(s).

Levi's Internal notes Family Systems is a good place to dive into. Be warned that it's broad but non-linear: https://integralguide.com/IFS

Someone from Reddit also compiled this (well-ordered!) list of references: https://liveifs.notion.site/IFS-Books-Youtubes-etc-b1fb32e8f...

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#152

Post by jplusequalt »

Aeolun wrote: post #136
kdmccormick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> institutionalized gaslighting Quite an accusation. Have you done CBT?

I can sort of see how you get there? “I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people, but think of how many people do that every day. Think of all those times when you were 15 when you did it without any problem.” E.g. your problem isn’t real, it’s all in your mind. Which of course it is, that’s kind of the point :)

From the outside, it's easy to dismiss an anxious individuals fears as nothing more than thoughts in their head that are (sometimes, but not always) completely removed from reality. But from the perspective of the anxious person whose sympathetic nervous system is causing elevated heart rates, shaky sweaty hands and feet, heart palpitations and chest pain, pressure headaches, and brain fog, the problem may seem a tad bit more serious than something that's "all in your mind".

Look, I understand what you're trying to say, but as someone who deals with all of the physical symptoms of anxiety listed above and has been told by loved ones countless times "your problem isn't real, so just don't stress about it", it doesn't help, and it's frankly infuriating to hear.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#153

Post by kdmccormick »

Aeolun wrote: post #136
kdmccormick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> institutionalized gaslighting Quite an accusation. Have you done CBT?

I can sort of see how you get there? “I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people, but think of how many people do that every day. Think of all those times when you were 15 when you did it without any problem.” E.g. your problem isn’t real, it’s all in your mind. Which of course it is, that’s kind of the point :)

EDIT: Sorry, I misunderstood your comment, I thought you were GGP saying that "it's all in your head" is better than CBT. Leaving my original response below.

Sure, but someone with crippling anxiety could easily counter your with any of these:

* I was assaulted when I was 17 so of course I could do things more easily when I was 15.

* I feel physical symptoms of anxiety when I am around others so it's not just in my mind.

* I am a fundamentally worse person than average and do not deserve to be around other people.

* I don't care about what others can do, I would rather die than walk through a crowd.

CBT tries to meet people where they are, acknowledge them, and then give them the tools to move in a healty direction. Kinda like this:

"I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people. I want you to imagine walking through the crowd, and tell me what you think and feel.

OK, so you feel physically ill, and you feel like there are bugs on your skin, and you imagine people around you are talking about you. Let's acknowledge that's how you feel.

Now, let's look at this logically. Do you accept that it's unlikely that anyone is actually talking about you? Can you touch your skin, confirm there are no bugs? And, finally, do you understand that your nausea, whilst real, is likely a physical symptom of anxiety following from the other two things, so if we work on the anxiety then the nausea will subside too?

Great. So we've acknowledged how you feel, and we've acknowledged that what you are feeling is driven by anxiety moreso than reality, and we agree that it's possible for you to overcome. It's OK if that doesn't immediately resolve your fear, but next time you are near a crowd, I want you to think about what we talked about before you decide to avoid the crowd."

This is proven to be more likely to help people. If your smug "IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD" solution worked, then plenty of kids with mental issues would have been magically cured when their parents said that exact phrase to them.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#154

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

yard2010 wrote: post #113
Aeglaecia wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

CBT is the gold standard solution for this kind of problems[0]. [0] - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5797481/

As far as I can tell, CBT is the gold standard for psychotherapy in much the same way that agile is the gold standard for software development. There's compelling evidence that some implementations can be remarkably effective at least some of the time, and a vague consensus that it's good and proven. However, there's also widespread disagreement and confusion about what it means to actually do it, how to evaluate whether it's a poor fit as opposed to the practitioner or client "doing it wrong", and the extent to which it meaningfully outperforms other approaches across a variety of real-world situations.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#155

Post by DrThunder »

BoxFour wrote: post #141
DrThunder wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the wrong approach imo. Therapy, lifestyle changes, learning to cope with it without meds should always be the first line treatment. More and more, you see the approach of just handing out meds like candy with a small mention that you should also seek therapy AFTER you get the meds. You can go to a general doctor and they'll write you up a prescription for an SSRI with hardly and convincing at all, there is n…

> there is no requirement for therapy As I mentioned before, reputable establishments typically mandate concurrent therapy, particularly when dealing with conditions like depression and anxiety. Your therapist and psychiatrist will often work together and share notes to better treat you. Reputable psychiatrists will often ask if you want to try therapy alone first: The good ones have no lack of patients, so it’s not…

"As I mentioned before, reputable establishments typically mandate concurrent therapy"

But, this is objectively false. Are you trying to say a GD is not "reputable"? Like I said, you can go directly to a GD almost anywhere in this country and they will give you an SSRI with no requirement or mandate to get therapy at all. They will all mention it but there's nothing that requires you to attend therapy.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#156

Post by BoxFour »

DrThunder wrote: post #155
BoxFour wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no requirement for therapy As I mentioned before, reputable establishments typically mandate concurrent therapy, particularly when dealing with conditions like depression and anxiety. Your therapist and psychiatrist will often work together and share notes to better treat you. Reputable psychiatrists will often ask if you want to try therapy alone first: The good ones have no lack of patients, so it’s not…

"As I mentioned before, reputable establishments typically mandate concurrent therapy" But, this is objectively false. Are you trying to say a GD is not "reputable"? Like I said, you can go directly to a GD almost anywhere in this country and they will give you an SSRI with no requirement or mandate to get therapy at all. They will all mention it but there's nothing that requires you to attend therapy.

> are you trying to say a GD is not “reputable”?

In the capacity of a psychiatrist? No, a primary care physician is not a trustworthy substitute for a psychiatrist. Mental health disorders should not be addressed by a PCP, even if they have the ability to prescribe you medication for it. You should seek treatment from mental health clinics that almost always have both psychiatrists and therapists on staff or work closely with other clinics that do.

Furthermore, once more: Numerous primary care physicians excessively prescribed opioids like candy. Acquiring a medical license does not automatically equate to being reputable in all fields.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#157

Post by kdmccormick »

121789 wrote: post #149
Aeolun wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sort of see how you get there? “I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people, but think of how many people do that every day. Think of all those times when you were 15 when you did it without any problem.” E.g. your problem isn’t real, it’s all in your mind. Which of course it is, that’s kind of the point :)

No not really. Gaslighting has an intent to deceive someone to pull them away from reality. CBT starts with the assumption by both people that the patient is away from reality and gives them tools to bring them closer. Gaslighting is like trying to convince a healthy person they’re fat (and giving them an eating disorder in the process) while CBT is like giving a fat person practices to manage appetite.

Well said.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#159

Post by hunkiry »

121789 wrote: post #149
Aeolun wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sort of see how you get there? “I know you are afraid of walking through a crowd of people, but think of how many people do that every day. Think of all those times when you were 15 when you did it without any problem.” E.g. your problem isn’t real, it’s all in your mind. Which of course it is, that’s kind of the point :)

No not really. Gaslighting has an intent to deceive someone to pull them away from reality. CBT starts with the assumption by both people that the patient is away from reality and gives them tools to bring them closer. Gaslighting is like trying to convince a healthy person they’re fat (and giving them an eating disorder in the process) while CBT is like giving a fat person practices to manage appetite.

I believe OP is trying to suggest that if you're well adjusted to the current world, you're the one who is deluded. And therefore, any method to change your perspective is forcing a delusion. Gas lighting.

The fat person in your metaphor is actually fit, surrounded by unhealthy skinny people who have been convinced they are fit.

Re: Anxious brains redirect emotion regulation

#160

Post by coder-3 »

giantg2 wrote: post #158

"Anxious individuals consistently fail in controlling emotional behavior, leading to excessive avoidance, a trait that prevents learning through exposure." Sounds a lot like burn out in ny experience.

No, burnout is too much exposure to certain stressors
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