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Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

businessinsider.com

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Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#61

Post by kwstas »

Nafnlaus wrote: post #57
kwstas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truly an inspired design if that is the case. Also the fact that the rear doors either do not have an emergency release or you have to lift the carpet to get to it is a marvel. Donald Norman very early in his book "The Design of Everyday Things" discusses door design in modern buildings focusing on the lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers. These vehicles solve the problem just by removing the ability to open them.

"Truly an inspired design if that is the case" - it's not the case. "Rear doors either do not have an emergency release" - you mean like every coupé ever built? Since when were you protesting coupés? Rear doors not only do not have to have manual releases, but don't even have to exist. "lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers" - the front manual release handle is not only not ambiguous, but is far more prominent than the…

> "Truly an inspired design if that is the case" - it's not the case.

I only read the article and some commenters here saying the windows break. The commenter above provides a reason for it that you say is not true. I stand by my comment, that if it is the case the design is "inspired"

>"Rear doors either do not have an emergency release" - you mean like every coupé ever built? Since when were you protesting coupés? Rear doors not only do not have to have manual releases, but don't even have to exist.

Don't most (all ?) of these cars have rear doors? What do coupés have to do with this? Convertibles don't have a roof but I would expect it in a sedan. If the doors exist there sould be a release that works in the case of this electrcal malfunction.

>"lack and/or ambiguity of signifiers" - the front manual release handle is not only not ambiguous, but is far more prominent than the electric release button, so most people with no experience with the car pull it instead of the button.

I expect this is the case for one model? The article has 2 cases of people that own these cars (a model y I think) and could not find the manual release without reading the manual or calling someone. Moreover the confusion you are describing (using the emergency rather than the regular release button) is exactly what ambiguous signifiers result in. This is a design failure as well.

I agree that unlatching the doors in a crash is a part of the crash sequence in many modern cars but these cases are not about crashes. Sudden power loss or an electrical malfunction should trigger the unlatching of doors and they seem to not. Jaws of life would not be a prudent way to get out of your car in these occasions.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#62

Post by ninkendo »

Nafnlaus wrote: post #56
jdiff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The windows have no frame. They slide up into the body of the car. If the door opens, the car needs to roll the window down a bit, then open the door. Without power, none of that happens. And if you use the emergency switch, the window showers you in shattered glass. Quite an elegant system.

"And if you use the emergency switch, the window showers you in shattered glass" I'll take "Things That Have Never Happened" for $800 Most people with no experience with the car reach for the handle rather than the button, as it's more intuitive. The window does NOT shatter when they do this. The window is up against a rubber seal. Rubber has give - it just drags along the rubber. Which you'd ideally rather not do, b…

> The same applies to all cars with frameless windows

I drove a Dodge Neon in the late 90s with frameless windows. The windows were not powered and it did not have a system to lower them when opening the door. It just worked.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#63

Post by theshrike79 »

ianhawes wrote: post #37
9991 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a bad design?

I love my Model Y but yes, there are some features that are just bad design. More specifically, poorly thought out design. Example: last December, we experienced a deep freeze. Temperatures of 6 F for several days. I had only taken ownership of my Model Y for a week or so. The doors became frozen shut. YouTube videos recommended applying a silicon spray to the crease, which of course would probably solve it later on,…

Meh. I've had the exact same issue with a VW Passat.

It was also a known issue in car circles. There was a bit in the door mechanism that collected condensed water and it either froze the door shut or it wouldn't close.

I had to drive a good 50km with the driver's door belted to my thigh so it wouldn't flap open in corners... Finally the interior temp got high enough so the tiny bit of ice melted and the door stayed shut.

The only sorta-solution to this would've been to completely dismantle the door and heavily lubricate the mechanism with a petroleum-based substance that kept the water out.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#64

Post by lawn »

darkwater wrote: post #40
lawn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sample size: Very few Type of evidence: Anecdotal Statistical relevance: Tiny

Obviously, it was implied by " My reality". Anyway the only real safety issue I can see is that rear doors doesn't have such a system, but I guess the theory here is that there should never be a case when someone is left alone in the rear seat (i.e. Tesla's "dog mode" explicitly tells you that it's just for pet, not meant for humans)

Is it that hard to imagine that kids might have trouble finding the switch?

Or that the person in the front are rendered unconscious and now the persons at the back are stuck?

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#65

Post by darkwater »

lawn wrote: post #64
darkwater wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, it was implied by " My reality". Anyway the only real safety issue I can see is that rear doors doesn't have such a system, but I guess the theory here is that there should never be a case when someone is left alone in the rear seat (i.e. Tesla's "dog mode" explicitly tells you that it's just for pet, not meant for humans)

Is it that hard to imagine that kids might have trouble finding the switch? Or that the person in the front are rendered unconscious and now the persons at the back are stuck?

I think you are mixing scenarios here. The initial scenario was that the car had no power (and anyway locks are powered by the LV battery, not the HV one), which is not a safety emergency situation. In that case, the person driving can get out of the car using the mechanical lever and open thee rear door(s) using the normal external handle. In case of an emergency, where no power is available anymore, well ,we are most probably talking about a serious enough car crash. In that case, AFAIK, Tesla - just like any other car manufacturer out there - has a system that trigger airbags and unlock doors when detecting a crash. But yet in that case, the ones in the rear seats has less chances to escape from the car, that's probably true.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#66

Post by Deebs12 »

darkwater wrote: post #17

Claim: it is difficult to find the manual release handle for the doors My reality: every single passenger who had never been on a Tesla before always uses the manual release handle instead of the right button, and I get a warning message on the screen and the risk of breaking the window glass. Source: Tesla M3 owner

I am also a M3 owner. I also had the experience of every NEW rider using the manual release unless I warned them not to.

My guess is the "trapped" people are ones who are very used to using the small button, and have forgotten about the manual release and it never occurs to them since they never have to use it.

I'm not sure how that's possible, but it's my guess.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#67

Post by ilyt »

expertentipp wrote: post #16

As a kid I was sick of mechanical cranks and levers, especially for car windows. Nowadays not only the door opener is electric, but also it probably sends telemetry to at least one political superpower. The next wave of despotism, like during pandemic, will likely bring thrilling new features and service integrations.

Even door open one ? I never minded those.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#68

Post by ilyt »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #11
chmod775 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if any other cars have such backup systems to open the doors. Many cars don't need backup because the car doesn't need power in the first place to open the doors. The ID.4 is a comparable car that does: the emergency door opening engages if you yank the lever hard twice. No need to hunt for some switch in the interior of the car.

> The ID.4 is a comparable car that does: the emergency door opening engages if you yank the lever hard twice. No need to hunt for some switch in the interior of the car. That's a great design - gentle pull on the lever and the electronics opens the latch/door, pull harder and (your) mechanical effort opens the door.

My Civic lever isn't all that hard to open. I believe the invention called "springs" allowed that to happen, no need for electronics.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#69

Post by ilyt »

9991 wrote: post #19
wcoenen wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because to avoid damage, the frameless windows need to drop a few millimeter when the door is opened. This doesn't happen when the car has lost all power and the emergency manual door release is used.

Sounds like a bad design?

Frameless windows in general bring plenty of problems, that's why they are rare. And those problems worsen with time as it's far harder to make 2 unconnected (glass from windows to car frame's seal) surfaces mate precisely.

Re: Tesla owners say they've been trapped inside their EVs after they lost power

#70

Post by ilyt »

expertentipp wrote: post #55
Turskarama wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody claimed they invented frameless windows, but I am going to claim (without doing due diligence) that they invented the frameless window that must be automatically wound down before the door can be opened.

I will furtherly speculate that they own at least dozen of patents for this technology.

decades implies any patent they had expired
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