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Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the 's and 's

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Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#171
post #76
post #3

> An email is essentially just an HTML document, like a web page, except it's visualized in an email client, rather than a web browser. However, both are capable of rendering, which is the process of turning HTML code into text, rectangles, and images, i.e. the visualization of the content. No, it is not. An email is a text document. That document might be HTML, but it doesn't have to be. And if such email is sent to…

Once again the stereotypical HN comment of « no this is all wrong, my way is right » For all communications that matter today, email is HTML. No one cares that JohnFen choses to not render them as HTML.

> No one cares that JohnFen choses to not render them as HTML.

Ironically, this is a reaction to "email is text only!" as stereotypical as the comment you are venting about.

You simply put your own bubble in the center of the universe („all communication that matters“ ... ?!). For example: Our company cares, our whole team cares. My bubble cares. I care. And I think we are running serious business.

We might not be the majority, but when one is just looking at the amounts of mail, even common users are less important then bots.

But I understand many people do not care about because they simply don't have to and/or are not into topic. It „works“. And therefore I'm still not sorting out HTML emails in my inbox or complain when receiving them. But I will not make the problem even bigger and start sending them (so... leading by example at most :-D).

Additionally, I think the article is another proof why HTML emails still is a bad idea although I don't blame people on the streets. Even if it "works". But clearly, there is much text email out there that matters.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#172
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no chance a business today can work with plain text documents at scale. Virtually all email clients support html since a decade and the expectations user have todays have changed. To put it differently, it looks unprofessional.

There is nothing in the average internal email that requires HTML, much less CSS. There is nothing in the average external email that requires HTML or CSS. There is no useful content in any email that requires JavaScript. "looks unprofessional" is cultural, and of the same significance as green vs blue text bubbles in your SMS messaging system.

Any formatting in email is html.

There is nothing that requires any text to have any formatting. But basic formatting can help readability. There is a reason to include bold or italics. Or headings. Or maybe even a simple diagram/image, or make links more approachable than the raw url.

Snail mail letters can include all of the above (except links), why not email?

Even when written memos were the norm in business, they still had company letter head.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some businesses like to retain users, and not alienate them using obscure, hard-to use-user interfaces, and blaming the user when they get it wrong. If you can't create a way to say "yes", which is at least as easy to use as checking a checkbox and clicking a button, why should I assume you're capable of, well, much of anything. It's not that it looks unprofessional. It looks either incompetent, or deliberately obtus…

If you can't reply to an email with 'YES' then you certainly aren't smart enough to have a good enough job to pay any reasonable amount of money.

Have you ever worked with the general public? At least half of adults would fail at that basic task.

The point of a business is to make money. You make more money by making the experience for your customers as easy as possible. If you don't, another company will.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#174
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no "need" to show logos and images, etc. …yes, there is. Email is a communication medium, and like in all written communication, an image can be useful. Do I really need to explain that images are useful in human communication? > and most other people According to you I guess?

I am not an infant. I do not read picture books.

Or scientific papers?

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#175
Just in the last year, I have sent over 30 million emails to our users. Mostly plain text. The last two emails, to the list with over 400k subs, were sent using MJML. Anecdotally OR dropped ~3-5 points. OR avg on the above numbers was 33%, rarely dropping below 30%. Now was 30% in both cases, but it took longer to get to that (I suppose the cause of email filters introducing some delay). Also, our links in the email received spikes of traffic (email spam software running crazy over them). Also, I've got some replies from happy users on how nice the new emails are. I yet have to see what to conclude. TLDR just use MJML.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#176

As an ABAP developer, I thought "that doesn't sound too bad". I definitely need to get out of there before my brain rots further. And for anyone curious: https://help.sap.com/doc/abapdocu_751_index_htm/7.51/en-us/a... Those are the keywords, about a third of that list is obsolete and you usually need multiple of them to make a valid statement. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Hah, that takes me back!! MY first internship was at SAP and I foolishly didn't even ask which technologies I would work with... ABAP is literally the worst lol. This was 2018 btw

At SAP, you get to use all the latest features and are free to change basically anything. On the customer/consulting side, we get to work around terrible ancient standard implementations and our products need to work on old systems, so 700 syntax it is.

And don't get me started on forms.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#177
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that is your response, but it’s not true of everybody. I’ve done a lot of experiments with different types of email, and beautiful emails always get significantly better response rates.

Ah. I think the difference is that when I send emails, I do so to communicate information, rather than to elicit people to buy a product.

Even when communicating important information, using the company design has been the norm since graphic printing was invented. Even something as transactional as a bank statement or court summon will use the sending organization's logo, fonts and colors.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#179
post #76
post #3

> An email is essentially just an HTML document, like a web page, except it's visualized in an email client, rather than a web browser. However, both are capable of rendering, which is the process of turning HTML code into text, rectangles, and images, i.e. the visualization of the content. No, it is not. An email is a text document. That document might be HTML, but it doesn't have to be. And if such email is sent to…

Once again the stereotypical HN comment of « no this is all wrong, my way is right » For all communications that matter today, email is HTML. No one cares that JohnFen choses to not render them as HTML.

>> An email is a text document ... the HTML is never rendered because I don't allow it.

> For all communications that matter today, email is HTML.

Ha, thwarted you both!

I only accept and send RTF.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How’s responsive design with mjml? Creating precise multi column responsive designs that work both in outlook and sane email clients is a nightmare.

I've been using MJML for a few years now, I can't imagine even trying to build a responsive email without it. I don't even have to think about it. You may still have to slice images, but it's grid/column support has worked great for me.

Does it support things like rounded buttons in outlook? (Require use vml with hard-coded widths)
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