Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 493 posts

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#481

Post by gwbas1c »

idopmstuff wrote: post #458
gwbas1c wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes obviously! What's frustrating is that sometimes I hit the pattern of saying "no," and then the salesperson ignores my response and continues to sell the warranty. At that point I will usually raise my voice and say something like "I said no," as if I was talking to a nagging teenager. Then the clerk will take an insulted tone and say something like, "I'm just doing my job." So what do you do in those situati…

In that case I think it helps to acknowledge that you understand their incentives/motivations and be even clearer than "no" - salespeople are trained that if you hear no the first ten times you ask and yes on the eleventh, that's still a sale. e.g. "Look, I recognize that it's your job to try to sell me a warranty, but there's absolutely no chance that I'm going to buy a warranty, so let's focus on the product." If t…

Wow, that's incredibly rude on the salesperson's side. I shouldn't have to continue to say no. It completely violates the "the customer is right" aspect of customer service.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#482

Post by gitaarik »

aidenn0 wrote: post #317
rdtsc wrote: post #129

> This all seemed ridiculous to us, so instead we drove the two hours, keeping our plan secret until we pulled up into our grandma’s driveway, so that no one could resist and thwart our plan. We had a lovely visit, and my mom later thanked us for making the drive. [...] This is guess culture — and it’s a lot of saying not really what you actually want, and it’s a lot of reading between the lines to try to figure out…

If someone tells me I'd be stupid to go visit grandma, and then decides I'm disloyal/unloving because I believed them, that's called lying and it's going to end my relationship with them pretty quickly.

In that sense I would say many Americans are lying all the time, because they exaggerate everything ;)

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#483

Post by nsvd »

wccrawford wrote: post #62
jzb wrote: post #12

"It’s rude to put someone in a position where they have to say no to you" I feel this in my bones. When I was a kid my dad went off on me after we visited someone's house and I saw cake on the counter and asked for a slice. That was just unacceptable. (Context: He was raised by people who lived through the depression. Food scarcity was a real thing in living memory.) Even though his reaction was way overboard, I stil…

While I was studying Japanese, I learned that they go out of their way to make it so the other person doesn't have to refuse with a "no". For instance, they'll ask, "Do you not have X?" instead of "Do you have X?" The person can answer "Yes, we don't have it" or "It's over here". I actually made this mistake, asking for a product directly instead of negatively, when I was in Tokyo. The clerk took me to the aisle and…

> If we had it, it'd be here.

Isn't this just the standard response when the clerk is not sure? Bring you to the relevant section and let you look for yourself.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#484

Post by RugnirViking »

tharkun__ wrote: post #442
distances wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely true, and this also applies to getting things without asking. As a somewhat tongue in cheek example -- if you have guests over you should offer coffee three times. They may refuse the first two and accept the third time. But if you do not offer thrice, they'll go home and complain that you were too stingy to even provide coffee. You should read the manner of refusal in these kinds of cases, and offer more…

This kind of thing is so foreign to me. Why all the dance? It makes no sense to me. I'll offer you a choice of coffee, tea, water, juice. Whatever we currently have basically. You say which one you want or you get nothing. Your choice.

I guess if I had to describe it it's sort of like instead of primarily looking after yourself and your own needs, it becomes more of a collaborative project. Like I care about the people around me by anticipating what they might need (would you like a cup of tea, would you like a pillow) to make them comfortable, and in return, they do the same for me, and I get a positive feeling of community around this looking after and being looked after cycle.

From there it continues towards my knowing that when I arrive somewhere they are sort of socially obligated to offer whatever they have to me regardless of whether they have the means to or want to. Maybe I feel like they would be more comfortable sitting and chatting with me but they are insisting on standing and serving me with drinks and such. So I say no initially, I want them to rest for a moment. But they indicate, by asking again, that it's no problem, and that in fact they will be making something for themselves regardless of what I say, at which point I think about if I actually want something.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#485

Post by RugnirViking »

dahfizz wrote: post #67
mabbo wrote: post #36

> Deciding what to eat for dinner with guess-culture people isn’t as simple as asking people what they want to eat for dinner, because they will not tell you what they actually want to want to eat for dinner. This was nearly a deal-breaking problem early in my relationship with my wife. I am "ask", she is "guess". We just want to figure out what we're going to order for dinner, why on earth is this turning into a fig…

I feel you. Some "guess" people are unable to just state what they want because they think it places a burden on the other person. But keeping your desires hidden creates an even larger burden! Just tell me what you want for dinner! I play a similar game with my wife. Whenever we have a hard time choosing something, I present 5+ options, and we take turns eliminating one option until only one is left.

as someone from a heavily "guess" culture i'd say it's less about "keeping your desires hidden" and more about we are trained from birth to literally not think about our own desires. Like we would find it difficult to write down on a piece of paper in an empty room. Instead you are supposed to look after the needs of other people even as they look after you.

In some ways its sort of more resillient, like if one person has a critical failure or can't be present, others can help, and because many people know you, it is a web that can witstand the loss of one or several members. You don't have to use your own limited mental capacity to make decisions (especially if you're struggling or need help) and you get warm feeling of connection from helping others.

The guess way of choosing whats for dinner would be if you're feeling good you pick what you know your partner likes. If you're feeling bad or struggling to decide they suggest what you like. Of course, this relies on you actually knowing what they like - remembering times they enjoyed something, knowing what to fall back on when they are vulnerable or struggling. You know the things they like from observing them intently, their body language, their tone of voice, etc when you eat. They will find it difficult to express whether they like something explicitly unless they really hate or love it.

Some may find it exhausting having to intently observe but for the people I know in this sort of culture it's instictive, like you literally couldn't not do that even if you tried.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#486

Post by lacerrr »

harpiaharpyja wrote: post #339

I personally don't understand guess culture. It seems really broken. It seems like it should be a communication nightmare. Humans are already predisposed to confuse reality with their own stories about reality, we shouldn't encourage doing that with other people and their thoughts. It's not real. The only way to know is to ask. And when you get to the very bottom of it, withholding communication from someone because…

What is being called "guess" culture here is I think very helpful when assessing people's social awareness and emotional intelligence. Of course, it doesn't work very well in heterogeneous groups of people, but it definitely does very well when people share a culture and have been brought up with common values.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#487

Post by smeej »

reddit_clone wrote: post #480
TylerE wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People Pleaser

That is accurate even if it sounds mildly derogatory. Any kind of confrontation is very difficult for some people while it means nothing to others. Simple example, when somebody cuts into a line in a super market, how many people actually speak up? Most of the time I see eye-rolls, angry shrugs but people just move on.

I have no problem with confrontation, but I also don't seek it out, and there's definitely a tradeoff.

Is checking out one person later going to be better or worse than what will probably be the very mild confrontation of prompting someone to move back in line? Usually, one person's inconvenient action has no meaningful impact on me at all and is quickly forgotten, but I don't know how it might impact the other person, so I wouldn't normally choose that confrontation even though it also wouldn't bother me if it happened. I'm weighing "no impact on either of us" with "no impact on me, but possible negative impact on the other."

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#488

Post by smeej »

gardenhedge wrote: post #447
smeej wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand your example, but that may come from having had more than my share of polyamorous friends. By default, I would take your request at face value and have no trouble saying, "No, we're monogamous, but I can't very well blame you for wanting to!"

Even if you someone was polyamorous, the question is still offensive as it implies ownership and authority.

I think the "with you" is implied: "Is it OK with you..."

I can't imagine a context in which someone would bother asking me for permission to rape my partner.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#489

Post by tharkun__ »

RugnirViking wrote: post #484
tharkun__ wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of thing is so foreign to me. Why all the dance? It makes no sense to me. I'll offer you a choice of coffee, tea, water, juice. Whatever we currently have basically. You say which one you want or you get nothing. Your choice.

I guess if I had to describe it it's sort of like instead of primarily looking after yourself and your own needs, it becomes more of a collaborative project. Like I care about the people around me by anticipating what they might need (would you like a cup of tea, would you like a pillow) to make them comfortable, and in return, they do the same for me, and I get a positive feeling of community around this looking aft…

    it it's sort of like instead of primarily looking after yourself and your own needs, it becomes more of a collaborative project
I don't think that's a fair characterization. I am looking after my guest(s). I ask them if they'd like something to drink. We have X, Y and Z. If they indicate that they are not in need of drink but are later on, they know what we have now and can ask. I have no visual or other indicator to foresee when they might actually become thirsty. I will not ask them every half hour whether they now want to drink something. Of course, if I happen to start making coffee because now it's "cake time", I'll ask again if they also want a coffee while I'm making some anyway or something else. But in between they better say something if they need it.

This to me is ask culture. On the other hand, guess culture would be someone making tea before I even arrive and serving it to me, expecting me to like it and drink it. Sorry but I don't drink tea. Please just ask me if I want one because if you don't have coffee, I'd rather just have a glass of water. But now that you've served this I won't say no because my guess is that it'd offend you, so I just nip a bit but don't drink it.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#490

Post by caminante »

IshKebab wrote: post #419
caminante wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a ton of theories that are very difficult to validate because you simply can't run the experiment due to practical or ethical reasons. But they HAVE run high/low context experiments. > For example my theory that UBI is unworkable. Basically impossible to prove because it's just too expensive to ever run a real UBI experiment. Are you referring to Universal Basic Income? If so, countless experiments have b…

> Are you referring to Universal Basic Income? If so, countless experiments have been run Sure, but those experiments are fundamentally flawed because they are of such limited duration, and because they only apply to a small portion of society. Obviously people's behaviour is going to be different if they know they can't abandon their careers, and the economy is obviously not going to be affected at all by these tria…

> To do a proper test you'd need an entire country to try UBI for at least one lifetime. Good luck with that.

My link provided examples that did that! See the Iran study [0]!

I deleted the rest of my comment elaborating on your fallacies because it's clear that you're acting in bad faith, and there's no point.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots#...

Post reply on HN