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Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

science.org

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Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#41
post #2

»Language can have a powerful effect on how people experience events. Here, we examine how the languages people speak guide attention and influence what they remember from a visual scene. When hearing a word, listeners activate other similar-sounding words before settling on the correct target. We tested whether this linguistic coactivation during a visual search task changes memory for objects. Bilinguals and monoli…

Unsurprisingly, that's not what the headline suggests.

And, as it turns out, they measured something else indeed. They measured recall of a visual scene after guiding subjects in different ways. English speakers were guided with e.g. clock and clown or clock and mirror. The first pair have some overlap, so (as theory suggests) subjects start looking at both. The second pair has no overlap, so the word clock doesn't make the subject scan for the mirror. Then they tested recall on these pictures. There are differences between people with different language proficiency, but they are small.

So it doesn't show that speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently, but rather that people only recognize objects from partially heard words quickly in the language(s) they're proficient in.

I wish they'd stop clickbaiting for this kind of technical studies.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#42
post #26
post #6

That's not a surprise. I mean, it's pretty difficult to have a thought without using language. When we watch a scene, we kinda describe it automatically using words, and that description is bound to be affected by the language used. I wonder what was the everyday experience of a human before language. It must have been pretty different from the world we experience as literate monkeys.

When you try to catch a ball playing some sport are you thinking "I need to catch this ball", or are you imagining its path and yourself moving to catch it? I'm usually talking to myself in my mind, but I can't imagine doing it when speed is important, thinking with words takes like 10 times longer. Or when you look at a photo and think which person is taller - are you thinking in words? Cause I'm imagining cutting a…

"Got it!" is indeed a very common expression in this situation. It does not exclude locomotion in parallel. We also here a lot of "ugh"s and "ah"s in Tennis or Martial Arts.

This is a slippery slope where some will say this is no real word and that's not syntax unless you define language in fivethousand words on normed paper all while catching the damn ball. That's just them crying look at me.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#43
Knowing more languages helps your memory, wow, who woulda thunk it. :D

I speak 4 languages that I got for free, without studying them. Just by being an immigrant, and connected to different european countries. This type of multilingualism is quite common in central europe. I remember meeting kids in Brussels who could speak 10 or 12 languages even, insane!

And yes I can confirm that it sure feels like my memory is very good. I often describe it as a gift and a curse. Ignorance is bliss takes on a powerful meaning when you can't forget things.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your simply mentioning the sensation was enough to distinctly bring it to mind. Having grown up by a beach, I've experienced it a lot, from childhood through to as an adult at different beaches around the world. While a specific word for it may be useful, I don't see how it is necessary as an aid to recall of the sensation.

I don’t think they said it’s necessary. They said it helps to isolate it in consciousness from the countless other phenomena you’re experiencing every second of every day.

Reminds me of mindfulness practices, having a word for it, and linking that word to a trip to the Maldives is likely what makes it so intensely memorable.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#45

Knowing more languages helps your memory, wow, who woulda thunk it. :D I speak 4 languages that I got for free, without studying them. Just by being an immigrant, and connected to different european countries. This type of multilingualism is quite common in central europe. I remember meeting kids in Brussels who could speak 10 or 12 languages even, insane! And yes I can confirm that it sure feels like my memory is ve…

[deleted]

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did s a search for 'feyli' and it shows that the term is used for the ethnic wear in Maldives. > Feyli (the ethnic attire of the Maldivian) was worn both by men and women in Maldives during the monarchy. Is it the same word used for both things, or maybe a slightly different word?

For reference, here’s a Dhivehi-English dictionary. https://twothousandisles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/dhiv... (It lists only ethnic wear as a translation for “feyli.”)

Hah now I'm picturing like that urban legend about Yucatan meaning "I don't know".

Op is being asked by natives of he'd like some local clothes while he repeatedly jams his foot into the wet sand and points at it.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#47
post #5

Hey, looks like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_hypothesis has finally been proven. Joking :-)

The Sapir-Whorf hypotheses remains contested. IMHO everyone who isn't completely clueless has to agree that the strong version of SW is without merit (language doesn't seem to impose hard limits on our thinking), but those who have seen the evidence (e.g. in the field of spatial recognition) would also be hard pressed to deny that linguistic features do mirror cultural practices and points of view.

Of course then the argument is whether the culture determines the language or the language determines the culture, but I find that a silly debate: clearly the two influence other in turn, shifts in culture will eventually be manifested in language but language is a very efficient medium to transmit habitual thinking patterns too.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, here’s a Dhivehi-English dictionary. https://twothousandisles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/dhiv... (It lists only ethnic wear as a translation for “feyli.”)

Hah now I'm picturing like that urban legend about Yucatan meaning "I don't know". Op is being asked by natives of he'd like some local clothes while he repeatedly jams his foot into the wet sand and points at it.

It's not really an "urban legend" that Yucatan means "I don't know"; it 's a credible theory that linguists take seriously.

You might be thinking of "kangaroo", which is also said to originate from a local word for "I don't know", but in that case it's not a serious hypothesis.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#49

This is like that "research" where speakers of different languages percieve time in different ways. I am not sure who funds this type of garbage but it shows that "science" is rifle with ridiculous findings. Suppose their "findings" are true - do I as a dual language speaker remember visual scenes in both ways? Laughable at best. Expressing visual scenes in different ways is obvious, since different languages have di…

> I am not sure who funds this type of garbage but it shows that "science" is rifle with ridiculous findings.

This is just such a bad-faith, effortless, shallow dismissal. If you wish to criticise the study, please do it on the basis of the methodology and not just because you think that somehow it can't be true.

> This is like that "research" where speakers of different languages percieve time in different ways.

This was a claim put forward by Benjamin Lee Whorf in the 1940s which has been discredited since at least the 80s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_time_controversy

Also, it was always conjectural and never grounded in solid empiric evidence in the way that is at least attempted in the article you're criticising here (whether successfully or not). And for good reason: at that time, linguistics simply wasn't yet as developed a field as it is now and doing experiments like we can do them today would probably have been hard to conceive. For all his faults, Benjamin Lee Whorf is one of the fathers of modern linguistics, and it's not right to criticise him based on today's standards.

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