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Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

science.org

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Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#31

Post by dfawcus »

canvascritic wrote: post #3

Man this reminds me of this trip I took to the Maldives as a kid. While spending time with locals, I learned the word "feyli," a term unique to their Dhivehi language. "Feyli" describes the feeling of sand between your toes as waves recede on a beach, a sensation familiar to many but so specific that English doesn't have a singular word for it. Before being introduced to feyli I simply enjoyed beach walks as a sum of…

Your simply mentioning the sensation was enough to distinctly bring it to mind. Having grown up by a beach, I've experienced it a lot, from childhood through to as an adult at different beaches around the world.

While a specific word for it may be useful, I don't see how it is necessary as an aid to recall of the sensation.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#32

Post by azernik »

gumballindie wrote: post #30

This is like that "research" where speakers of different languages percieve time in different ways. I am not sure who funds this type of garbage but it shows that "science" is rifle with ridiculous findings. Suppose their "findings" are true - do I as a dual language speaker remember visual scenes in both ways? Laughable at best. Expressing visual scenes in different ways is obvious, since different languages have di…

Generally research of this type finds that dual language speakers' remembered details depend on which language they've been primed with (ie made to use or listen to just before the activity).

It's also much more subtle than the splashy headlines indicate - it's about which details you're more likely to remember, not some fundamentally different experience of the world.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#33

Post by taylorius »

beebeepka wrote: post #8
the_gipsy wrote: post #7

Reminds of Julian Jayne's essay, where he says that remembering is essentially re-narrating memories to yourself.

I think it goes beyond simple rearranging. We actively change them. Maybe not many people are immune to this

“But every person has their own encyclopedia written, which grows out from each soul, composed from birth onward, hundreds of thousands of pages pressing into each other and yet there’s air between them! Like trembling leaves in a forest. A book of contradictions. What’s in there is revised by the moment; the images touch themselves up, the words flicker. A wave washes through the entire text, followed by the next wave, and the next . . .” - Tomas Transtromer.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#34

Post by gumballindie »

azernik wrote: post #32
gumballindie wrote: post #30

This is like that "research" where speakers of different languages percieve time in different ways. I am not sure who funds this type of garbage but it shows that "science" is rifle with ridiculous findings. Suppose their "findings" are true - do I as a dual language speaker remember visual scenes in both ways? Laughable at best. Expressing visual scenes in different ways is obvious, since different languages have di…

Generally research of this type finds that dual language speakers' remembered details depend on which language they've been primed with (ie made to use or listen to just before the activity). It's also much more subtle than the splashy headlines indicate - it's about which details you're more likely to remember, not some fundamentally different experience of the world.

Details are subjective, and that can be influenced by culture and language. For instance if in my culture it's more important to know the colour of your pants then i will remember that. If in your culture the colour of your hat is more important you will remember that. But a person's culture changes, and that person can still speak a particular language but memories be influenced by a different pattern. Correlation and casualisation etc.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#35

Post by alganet »

ajuc wrote: post #26
alganet wrote: post #6

That's not a surprise. I mean, it's pretty difficult to have a thought without using language. When we watch a scene, we kinda describe it automatically using words, and that description is bound to be affected by the language used. I wonder what was the everyday experience of a human before language. It must have been pretty different from the world we experience as literate monkeys.

When you try to catch a ball playing some sport are you thinking "I need to catch this ball", or are you imagining its path and yourself moving to catch it? I'm usually talking to myself in my mind, but I can't imagine doing it when speed is important, thinking with words takes like 10 times longer. Or when you look at a photo and think which person is taller - are you thinking in words? Cause I'm imagining cutting a…

I agree. There's a lot of things we do which doesn't require language.

It's often there for me though, like a default. I don't think "left leg, right leg" when I'm walking, and I don't think "geez, I'm walking now", but when I'm walking my go-to thinking defaults to some internal monologue: "gonna buy some food", "can I cross the road?", etc.

When I go to bed this is more evident. It's silent, dark, and all senses are numb. This is when the internal voice gets more noticeable. I just can't get rid of it, until the very moment I go to sleep.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#37

Post by zodzedzi »

> Bilinguals and monolinguals remembered English competitor words that overlapped phonologically with a spoken English target better than control objects without name overlap. High Spanish proficiency also enhanced memory for Spanish competitors that overlapped across languages. We conclude that linguistic diversity partly accounts for differences in higher cognitive functions...

This conclusion sounds like quite the leap.

Even if the two observations they generated turned out to be 100% ironclad true, generalizing to "speakers of different languages" as a title and "linguistic diversity" from observing just two languages seems like a big jump.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#38

Post by ajuc »

alganet wrote: post #35
ajuc wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you try to catch a ball playing some sport are you thinking "I need to catch this ball", or are you imagining its path and yourself moving to catch it? I'm usually talking to myself in my mind, but I can't imagine doing it when speed is important, thinking with words takes like 10 times longer. Or when you look at a photo and think which person is taller - are you thinking in words? Cause I'm imagining cutting a…

I agree. There's a lot of things we do which doesn't require language. It's often there for me though, like a default. I don't think "left leg, right leg" when I'm walking, and I don't think "geez, I'm walking now", but when I'm walking my go-to thinking defaults to some internal monologue: "gonna buy some food", "can I cross the road?", etc. When I go to bed this is more evident. It's silent, dark, and all senses ar…

I default to monologue too and it has some serious disadvantages. I always had problems remembering to do stuff I "told myself" to do with some delay.

Later in life I learnt a trick from my wife who uses visualization for this. For example I need to buy something tomorrow after work - so I'll imagine myself stepping out of the bus, turning to shop instead of going directly home, and then I'll imagine myself passing by the shelf in the mall where the thing is and taking it to the basket. And like magic - I get an "internal notification" with this fake future memory when I step out of the bus, and then another when I pass by that shelf in the shop.

It's like magic :) Makes remembering stuff so much easier.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#39

Post by ethanbond »

dfawcus wrote: post #31
canvascritic wrote: post #3

Man this reminds me of this trip I took to the Maldives as a kid. While spending time with locals, I learned the word "feyli," a term unique to their Dhivehi language. "Feyli" describes the feeling of sand between your toes as waves recede on a beach, a sensation familiar to many but so specific that English doesn't have a singular word for it. Before being introduced to feyli I simply enjoyed beach walks as a sum of…

Your simply mentioning the sensation was enough to distinctly bring it to mind. Having grown up by a beach, I've experienced it a lot, from childhood through to as an adult at different beaches around the world. While a specific word for it may be useful, I don't see how it is necessary as an aid to recall of the sensation.

I don’t think they said it’s necessary. They said it helps to isolate it in consciousness from the countless other phenomena you’re experiencing every second of every day.

Re: Speakers of different languages remember visual scenes differently

#40

Post by mahatofu »

hackernewds wrote: post #10
wmlive wrote: post #2

»Language can have a powerful effect on how people experience events. Here, we examine how the languages people speak guide attention and influence what they remember from a visual scene. When hearing a word, listeners activate other similar-sounding words before settling on the correct target. We tested whether this linguistic coactivation during a visual search task changes memory for objects. Bilinguals and monoli…

They say often that French are bad at quick math and Chinese are better due to the nature of their numeric system

There’s definitely valid research on higher perfect pitch apprehension in Chinese speakers ( relative to linguistic tonalities ).
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