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Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

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Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#151

Post by Zetice »

janalsncm wrote: post #68
Zetice wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this is to not agree to it (your “chance” is to stop using the service).

This “solution” is a non-starter. People like to imagine that we have a marketplace with degrees of freedom in all directions, but we don’t. We have to make choices, and often that just means choosing the least bad option. But it is interesting to note how we got here. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/13/1187543648/terms-and-conditio... To summarize the podcast episode, contracts used to be individually tailored, but busi…

Wait, are tou seriously suggesting you do have an inherent right to use the services of a private company?

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#152

Post by riedel »

dtjohnnymonkey wrote: post #33

There was a recent ruling on EU-US Data Privacy regulations https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...

The commission accepted the new treaty. No rulings yet afaik: we will see how long this lives.

[0] https://noyb.eu/en/23-years-illegal-data-transfers-due-inact...

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#153

Post by Zetice »

deely3 wrote: post #59
throwaway290 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. And it's actually quite easy for some of these products (except maybe for PayPal if you don't have a bank account).

Yeah, just change place of work everytime when company asks you to do somwthing with any Microsoft product. Is this your solution?

Yes? You can work decades in many careers without touching a Microsoft product.

Ut more importantly, you have no right to Microsoft products, and it regularly blows my mind when people try to argue otherwise.

Besides, if your beliefs are so incompatible with society that they exclude you from holding down a job, that belief becomes a pathology, not a conviction. Understanding how to operate successfully in society is a critical part of being an adult.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#154

Post by bilsbie »

__s wrote: post #107
bilsbie wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that strategy but what’s stopping them from saying they get your car or something really outrageous?

It wouldn't hold up in court. Just because you agree to a contract doesn't mean it's legally binding

Where’s the limit though? What decides wha they can put in there and what they can’t?

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#156

Post by jupp0r »

oever wrote: post #76
jupp0r wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can build this with what Github offers for free to open source projects.

Catch 22: first agree to the Microsoft GitHub ToS. Or you can use a friendlier service like the one provided by Codeberg. https://docs.codeberg.org/getting-started/what-is-codeberg/#...

At least you'll know when Githubs ToS change ....

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#157

Post by paulmd »

davorak wrote: post #81
bandergirl wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers are not paid to provide a service to the public, you got that mixed up. They’re writing code to protect the company that hired them. The language used by the law is not the common language because the latter is prone to bugs.

I think the spirt of the statement still works if you move the incompetence up when level so something along the lines of ~"It is spectacular how incompetent that the law allows confused/convoluted communication to act as protection to the company hired the lawyers to produce said communication." It seems like society would be better off if the law were set up to where only when clear communication has happened that…

It wouldn’t be much better if the language were plain and simple. “We can do what we want with your data and you can’t sue us under any circumstances resulting from your use of the service, and you disclaim all rights to the maximum extent permissible by your local consumer laws” wouldn’t be any better for you.

The problem is contracts of adhesion are inherently unconscionable, as are contracts that require signing away rights without consideration (above and beyond the use of the service). If you’re doing something with the data beyond providing the service (in a GDPR sense) then there needs to be an actual consideration to the customer for the resulting profit above and beyond the use of the service.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#158

Post by toast0 »

Zetice wrote: post #153
deely3 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, just change place of work everytime when company asks you to do somwthing with any Microsoft product. Is this your solution?

Yes? You can work decades in many careers without touching a Microsoft product. Ut more importantly, you have no right to Microsoft products, and it regularly blows my mind when people try to argue otherwise. Besides, if your beliefs are so incompatible with society that they exclude you from holding down a job, that belief becomes a pathology, not a conviction. Understanding how to operate successfully in society is…

At least in my corporate experience, it's hard for IT to avoid the pull of Exchange + Outlook. And it's hard to work at a company when you refuse to use email.

Re: Ask HN: Why did Microsoft, Meta, and PayPal update their ToS today?

#159

Post by rolph »

bilsbie wrote: post #154
__s wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't hold up in court. Just because you agree to a contract doesn't mean it's legally binding

Where’s the limit though? What decides wha they can put in there and what they can’t?

in my neck of the woods, a contract cant contravene the law, any such thing is invalid upon creation.
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