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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#461
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I am reminded of the tweet from long-banned Twitter poster Hakan Rotmwrt:

"One of the strangest fixations of AFWL metaphysics is on a substance called 'trauma' that they believe is 'stored in the body' in small saclike organs where it constantly threatens to be 'triggered' and erupt out of its ducts. They assert life itself is about 'processing trauma'"

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#462

The most important thing I got from this was from the original Ask post forever ago. “Thing is, Guess behaviors only work among a subset of other Guess people - ones who share a fairly specific set of expectations and signalling techniques. The farther you get from your own family and friends and subculture, the more you'll have to embrace Ask behavior. Otherwise you'll spend your life in a cloud of mild outrage at (…

It seems the Ask culture's norm is more favorable in welcoming new members whereas the Guess culture's norm is more favorable in building loyalties to the community among members. IMO curiosity and fear are underlying factors of the cultural differences.

An interesting thought exercise is when Ask people somehow happen to live in a Guess culture. It's like all the guess culture members are working with their own cryptography that's not allowed to the newcomer, and when the new person asks for the code, no one can clearly give the code to the newcomer. The code has to be learned by spending enough time with the community members.

Language is one such barrier -- unless you learn it at an early age, it is sometimes almost impossible to master the intricacies of a language. There are also other numerous cultural aspects that take time and effort to learn, which helps the coherence and integrity of the "guess" culture members.

But even in those Guess cultures, there are also people with curiosity and willingness to learn new cultures, which could move the cultures toward the Ask cultures. That's at least what I learned while I studied the 19th and 20th century history of Korea and Japan. They are not always successful in making changes and progresses within the society, but when they do or when the changes come, they are those thriving, by asking questions about the new world and the new norms. IMO this curiosity is the catalyst for the change from a more Guess culture toward a more Ask culture.

On the other hand, there's fear, the fear of the newcomers. IMO that's what drives the Guess culture, and also another powerful motivation that moves a culture toward more "Guess" culture. In US or European politics, you see all these nationalistic movements. As one of the comments said, even in US, the Guess culture is more predominant in the locations where the fear against other ethnic groups is dominant. It's just the correlations, but IMO there's some feedback loop between the fear and the Guess cultures.

In the end, it's easy to see why the Ask cultures would become more dominant: Ask cultures can easily talk to each other and learn from each other, while Guess cultures are exclusive even among themselves, which make them more difficult to learn from others.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#463
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

I have lived this too. Likewise ask culture can only be healthy if there is not a power imbalance: is the asked party really free to say no? The title is catchy but I’m not sure how useful this dichotomy really is.

> can only be healthy if there is not a power imbalance

I don't know if that's any less true of "guess" culture. In guess culture the one with less power gets punished for guessing wrong instead of asking wrong.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#464
post #335
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood the concept already, thanks. But thank you for providing readers an example of the kind of condescension I was describing.

And then others can read your own comment history about the 'minor' traumas and the impacts that has had on relationships in your own life. At least from your writing I believe you're a very introspective person. The trouble with introspection is that it is an imperfect mirror. We tend to self find solutions for our problems, but we do so at the risk of completely missing the blind spots in our life. Coming back at t…

Honestly, I've always been doubtful of therapy and how well it could work for me but your comments made it click for me. Thank you!

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#465
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

It doesn't have to be a Big Thing though; the problem is that the word "trauma" sounds / feels very serious, but it can be trivial things, or things you shrugged off like "well those things just happen". Personal example, I had a good (girl) friend when I was like six, I was very lonely / isolated before she came around and we played together and the like. But then her parents moved and I never saw her again. And for…

Might sound like a dumb question but now that therapy helped identify that link, what happens afterwards?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother had a good tip when traveling internationally; ask questions where the correct answer is “no”. So don’t ask if the food is vegetarian, ask if there’s meat in it. Of course, that was for language barriers. Also, I don’t know how to tell you this, but that doesn’t sound like an “ask” culture- that sounds like a “yes-man” situation.

Or in this case don't ask yes/no questions. Don't give them he option to give the answer they think you want to hear. What have you done? What is your next step?

Oh, good advice. Reminds me of another tidbit:

A lot of people will hear "why" as accusatory: "why did you do it this way?!" becomes a question about culpability rather than causality; "what" is (apparently) what you want to use: "what led you to make these choices?"

(it's probably a moving target tho, although one that moves slowly)

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#467
post #335
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood the concept already, thanks. But thank you for providing readers an example of the kind of condescension I was describing.

And then others can read your own comment history about the 'minor' traumas and the impacts that has had on relationships in your own life. At least from your writing I believe you're a very introspective person. The trouble with introspection is that it is an imperfect mirror. We tend to self find solutions for our problems, but we do so at the risk of completely missing the blind spots in our life. Coming back at t…

The last paragraph is a really good insight. We tend to view a "good" upbringing as purely the absence of trauma, but it requires the active presence of teaching important skills and modeling healthy relationships.

Simply never being in a car accident while growing up doesn't mean you spontaneously know how to drive a car.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#468
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting, it somehow means you are agreeing with them if they don't have it, so they don't have to feel so bad about not having it.

I'm from Appalachia and we have the same thing, and yeah at least for us it's like you're agreeing with them that they don't have it. "Do you not have bananas?" is like "is it true that there are no bananas?". Then if there are bananas, the host can gleefully surprise you with them and feel like they solved a problem for you. This is only if it's said in a constantly upwardly-shifting tone, though. It can be said ano…

I read somewhere that a good negotiating strategy is to start with something that both can agree to.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#469
post #114
post #8

I disagree with the way these behaviors are portrayed as a cultural dichotomy. To me, the author's examples all fall under ineffective communication. Their example of "ask culture" involves stoking resentment by making unreasonable requests. This can be avoided by practicing a little empathy. Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine i…

> Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine if you can't, I can also get it from Z". The escape hatch could also just be a mere formality, especially when there is a difference in power dynamics or social rank. This is amplified in cultures where, for example, the opinions and needs of elders rank higher.

In those cases, you're expected to tend to the needs of those elders without them even having to ask.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#470
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Iran when you ask a store owner the price of something, the answer is "It's free." Then you have to refuse a few times if it's free and then you can get the price. (Not my personal experience. But I heard the same thing from a few people.)

This is called Taarof and can be at times quite extreme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof . I have a good friend whose parents are from Persia/Iran. He told me about this culture after we knew each other for quite some time. Even though he has never lived there, he often still has a hard time not to do this, which has resulted in some funny (at least for his friends) or uncomfortable situations over time. Knowing…

Thanks. I didn't know that it was a general thing and had a name. Fascinating.
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