Live data from Hacker News

Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

zetter.substack.com

121–130 of 141 posts

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#121
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh, that’s mostly a semantic argument. People without acute radiation syndrome / radiation poisoning can still face significant long term health effects. So yea nobody’s hair was falling out, but they still had sufficient radiation exposure to have long term impacts. However, these are also soldiers in a war. Their risks of being shot or bombed etc drastically outweigh the risks from radiation here.

There’s no semantics about it. Radiation exposure isn’t binary. We’d have to know the type, intensity, and duration to make predictions about any possible expected adverse health outcomes.

It’s a semantic argument because saying nobody got Radiation poisoning doesn’t mean nobody was harmed.

People found out through researching what and where these people dug into the soil roughly what their long term heal impacts where.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#122
post #75
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as somebody who born in russia you can't represent everybodies in russia knowledge. in case you don't watch them, go watch some of zolkin videos where he asks russian solders questions about history and ukraine. very enlightening

Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from a remote village so this can't be literally "everybody", but it's absurd to claim that the majority of the population doesn't know about Chernobyl. It was a very hot topic in Russia for a long time, and in the 90s the government lost control over the information space of the country so the information about Chernobyl was spreading freely. The younger generations can learn…

> Sure, you can always cherry-pick someone from a remote village (...)

The bulk of Russia's invasion force is comprised by people from remote villages.

You're talking about people who risked their lives, and many died, to pillage washing machines and indoor toilets.

Do you really think the literacy level and access to information from the average Russian grunt on the floor accommodates this info? Many didn't even knew where in the world they were stationed.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#123
post #2

> The IAEA sent experts to do a radiological survey in the CEZ in April, but their focus wasn’t on determining the cause of the spikes. Investigators instead wanted to determine if Russian soldiers who dug trenches in a small section of the CEZ had released dangerous levels of radiation in that area that could have sickened the soldiers or anyone else who passed through that area. (The IAEA determined the radiation l…

> They thought they were going to get all of Ukraine in 3 days. The claim of a 3-day takeover has never been official. It came from a random article that was erroneously published. The reason it was written stems from the fact that many news agencies prepare drafts for various scenarios. To rely on a news article as evidence of one country's legitimate plan to invade another defies common sense.

It was said by main propagandists who are the official mouths of kremlin on national tv channels. Also it was said by Lukashenka.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, no - they didn't know. That's 100% plausible. No, it's not plausible. Stop making shit up.

You're both way off. I asked four of the youngest people I know (ages 19-22) what Chernobyl was and only one knew. And only because of the TV show. You have no idea how little the average youngster cares about stuff they didn't personally experience. Almost nobody is reading history articles on Wikipedia for fun. It's just Tik Tok, Insta, and Youtube. For the majority of them, certain subjects will just be mentioned…

Outside of Russia? Come on. Most young people know of Chernobyl because of the TV show. The tourism there spiked after HBO rolled it.

The former USSR is a totally different matter. It's a very well-known and painful, very close part of history. Not knowing about it is a shocking level of ignorance and miseducation, and yet - this is what we have.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#125
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from the West, it is very difficult to think that information black out can be achieved at such a level that younger generations would know nothing of a disaster on the level of Chernobyl.

How many Americans, younger or not, would raise an eyebrow if invited to go camping around Hanford? The Russian soldiers might have heard about Chernobyl, but had no idea a) that they were there or b) how far the contaminated zones extended.

> How many Americans, younger or not, would raise an eyebrow if invited to go camping around Hanford?

You're grossly misrepresenting the facts. The Russians who were digging trenches in Chernobyl were a part of a full blown invasion force directly organized by Russia's regime from the very top. Russia's plan to invade Ukraine and dig in and around Chernobyl was specified from the very top of the chain of command, and enforced throughout the whole chain of command way down into individual orders sent to the Russian grunts in the ground.

These were no average randos who just felt compelled to dig a hole in a camp site.

It's entirely absurd to pretend that Russia's top echelons were oblivious to Chernobyl, and it's outright stupid to misrepresent a full blown invasion force executing battle plans as random people camping somewhere who just felt like digging a hole.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#126
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall seeing a heatmap of residual radiation levels produced in (I think?) 2015 and the reported location of the trenches was very close to the hottest part of it.

I posted the sources in the edits of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37182828#37183914 Do you have another position for the trenches?

Your comment says 26km distance from the plant, I can only say that this really doesn't look like 26km.

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1511709947809181698?s=20

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#127

Qui bono? "OK, guys, we'll just hack into these radiation sensors to manipulate the data feed, and make them display highly elevated level of radiation for a few minutes. Then we'll reset them back to normal... muwuhahahaha [evil laugh]...."

And the part where Russian soldiers take the server offline because they know the data is fake and they want to avoid a panic… What? If the Russians are doing it they can just stop If the Ukrainians are doing it the Russians don’t know they’re doing it None of this makes any sense, why would either side care about this? I’m now more inclined to believe it was just a weird sensor issue or for whatever reason the traff…

It never implies that it was Russia who took the server offline. It says that, if Russia was responsible, it was likely Ukraine instead. There are a couple of different credible explanations at the end, which specifically mention motive.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#128

Qui bono? "OK, guys, we'll just hack into these radiation sensors to manipulate the data feed, and make them display highly elevated level of radiation for a few minutes. Then we'll reset them back to normal... muwuhahahaha [evil laugh]...."

And the part where Russian soldiers take the server offline because they know the data is fake and they want to avoid a panic… What? If the Russians are doing it they can just stop If the Ukrainians are doing it the Russians don’t know they’re doing it None of this makes any sense, why would either side care about this? I’m now more inclined to believe it was just a weird sensor issue or for whatever reason the traff…

> If the Ukrainians are doing it the Russians don’t know they’re doing it

wouldn’t that explain it rather cleanly? aren’t there plenty of asinine actions taken in war?

speculation, yes. the cost will likely be downvotes for me. that’s ok. taking your sentence, let’s run with that and show a possibility.

ukraine fights asymmetrically. you have seen this with drone boats, drones dropping bombs, drones taking prisoners, soldiers on e-bikes, etc. scrappy. (many americans dig this subconsciously - echoes of the revolutionary war ringing in their ears from centuries ago.)

russia seems to fight… dumb. brute force. big stick. not the country, not the people, but the military operation - dumb. crude.

if you were a smart, ukranian allied (but maybe not even affiliated) hacker and you wanted to make the russian military look worse, you amp up the damage signals from their march into cez. who cares how plausible, it just needs to be upsetting. russians + radiation. done and done.

if you were a dumb russian, upon learning that “you caused this massive radiation spike,” you might want to hide the evidence - the sensor data. because you don’t want to deal with the fallout, no pun intended.

if you were a smart ukranian hacker, you might get real quiet now, because oops those modified values aren’t exactly going to blend in. but it doesn’t matter. the dumb russian believed your ruse, and hid your manipulation, thinking it their failure. which might be better than you hoped.

the motive can be quite simple. hurt the other side. it doesn’t need to be rational, and the execution can be anything but. which, once all sides are involved, can look more like chaos.

or maybe it was nothing of the sort.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both way off. I asked four of the youngest people I know (ages 19-22) what Chernobyl was and only one knew. And only because of the TV show. You have no idea how little the average youngster cares about stuff they didn't personally experience. Almost nobody is reading history articles on Wikipedia for fun. It's just Tik Tok, Insta, and Youtube. For the majority of them, certain subjects will just be mentioned…

Outside of Russia? Come on. Most young people know of Chernobyl because of the TV show. The tourism there spiked after HBO rolled it. The former USSR is a totally different matter. It's a very well-known and painful, very close part of history. Not knowing about it is a shocking level of ignorance and miseducation, and yet - this is what we have.

20yo westerners are not watching HBO shows about old Russian scientists. If they're watching HBO at all, they're watching Euphoria. It takes a certain mindset and a modicum of appreciation for history to watch Chernobyl.

I don't think it's a stretch to think a 22yo Russian farmer signed up for the military is just as disinterested in history.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a terrible title. The question was "On April 26, 1986, there was an explosion at the nuclear power plant in Chernobyl. How did you learn about this accident?"

If that was the question, how it comes that 33% answered one of From documentary films From social media and the Internet From fictional films/ TV shows From books Already books, films, social media and the internet on the very first day of the accident? Fiction, maybe.

The key here is that the question doesn't actually ask "how did you hear about it on the day of the accident," but "how did you hear about it"?

Just the title of the graphic says that, incorrectly. It's a poll that includes 18-year-olds done in 2019, it's clearly not intended to be only asking about the moment of the incident.

Post reply on HN