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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#391

Post by yogrish »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I have similar situation at home. I am from guess culture and always think about what the guests might need and offer them ahead. But my wife expects them to ask and doesn't bother much or ignores them. I see people from guess culture tend to be more empathetic as they think from others POV but the downside is they have anxiety of what others might judge and be more stressed. Ask culture people tend to be more situationally unaware and don't bother much and are relaxed.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#392

Post by ericls »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

Trust sounds good but is based not knowing.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#393

Post by haterforhire »

another-dave wrote: post #358
opportune wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking isn’t necessarily transactional. If I go to your house and ask for a glass of water, it’s because I’m thirsty and I know it’s NBD for you to get a glass and put water in it. I’m not expecting to give or get anything else in return, nor am I trying to be rude by insinuating you should have given me a glass of water. The thought process goes: 1. I am thirsty. 2. I don’t think it’s rude to ask for water since it’…

What you've described sounds like the 'Guess culture' side to me — you're anticipating the impact on me & asking for something that you intuit is nbd. Let's say though that you felt like a beer. Would you ask for one? To me, it'd feel quite rude to ask for something like that (what if you don't have any, will it make you feel bad? What if you have some but you were saving them for something or they're very expensive?…

The beer example is such a good one because no one really thinks it’s reasonable to ask for a beer without a shared context that beers happen in that particular relationship.

“Ask culture” people, in the context of a shared relationship, are just kind of assholes. Ask culture means “I ask for shit without a legitimate understanding that it is an acceptable request”.

(Obviously when you do not share culture or a relationship you must ask. But you should ask questions that let you understand the culture, and observe instead of act. Or, you know… just be an asshole.)

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#394

Post by l0b0 »

huijzer wrote: post #293
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I‘ve gone through a ton of comments below and see a lot of contradicting evidence to your thoughtful suggestion. Also my girlfriend and I are both from north Europe and I notice a similar difference. Maybe the difference is mostly > she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity This reminds me of a quote from Buffett from about 40 years ago. He said something along the lines of "when women are raised, they hear…

This and other comments here resonate a lot. My SO is unlikely to ask for anything if there's even a small chance of getting a negative answer, and I'm basically the opposite. If this difference really is common, wouldn't it explain a large part of the salary and position discrepancies between the sexes? That is, someone who asks for an improvement to their contract once they are 50% sure of getting it versus someone who only asks when they are at least 80% sure are going to have very different careers, right? Especially if their superiors are usually of the same background.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#395

Post by Apploks »

Just look at the world, people know how to speak, how to behave, what emotions and feelings to put on display, given the environment and the situation. It’s as if we have learned to be real people with each other ... That's just our whole culture of behavior, in fact, pursues only one extremely not noble goal, namely to hide our real thoughts and feelings.) Thanks for the article, it will help me understand my Asian friends. This is a different culture, which must also be respected and tried to be understood.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#396

Post by throwawaymaths »

srazzaque wrote: post #375
throwawaymaths wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get this: in Japanese culture, you are expected to refuse three times .

I've not been to Japan, but heard what seems to be an exception to this rule from a colleague. When out having drinks, it is considered (1) rude to let your friend's drink go empty, and (2) rude to refuse your friends offer for a drink. Is this accurate? If so... one can imagine how this can get pretty messy!

I wouldn't know, I've never gone drinking with Japanese people, just been friends with Japanese Americans as a kid. It's a thing.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#397

Post by blangk »

lillecarl wrote: post #310
crazygringo wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious, what is the point you're trying to make? Do you think American doesn't have cultural differences within? Or that those cultures don't correlate at all with geography? Or with ancestry?

It's the international part, if there's such a difference between west, east, south and north it just doesn't seem necessary to say where you Mr grandma's from Edit: I want to move to the Netherlands, if I have kids there they'll be Dutch

They would have Dutch passports and be Dutch citizens, yes. And if they live there for long enough they would take on the culture. But let me ask you this. If you breed a German Shepard, with a German Shepherd anywhere in the world, what do you get?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#398

Post by j7ake »

And what’s the culture where you have guessed correctly what a guest wants, but the guest must say no several times before reluctantly accepting ?

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#399

Post by syradar »

jasondigitized wrote: post #338
njharman wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not spending game night constantly asking all my guests all the possible things (water, caffeine, booze, food, bathroom, chair, cushion, warmer, colder, more light, less light, music, different music, louder music, quieter music, pet my dog, etc, etc, fucking etc). If you want something, YOU ask for it, which is polite.

But.....if you have an incredibly expensive or special, unopened bottle of wine sitting off in a corner and your guest asks if he can open it.....that is grounds to be excommunicated off the earth. Don't do that, it's incredibly tacky, reeks of entitlement and puts your host in a awkward position.

“No, it’s a special bottle“ The guest asked and got an answer. Is it tacky and reeks of entitlement, Yes, it does not haves to become awkward

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#400

Post by dizhn »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #362
aidenn0 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a friend from the western US who was explicitly taught by her (white) mother that you always refuse a favor the first time it is offered. There were many months of me never doing any favors for her before we figured that one out...

Get this: in Japanese culture, you are expected to refuse three times .

In Iran when you ask a store owner the price of something, the answer is "It's free." Then you have to refuse a few times if it's free and then you can get the price. (Not my personal experience. But I heard the same thing from a few people.)
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