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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#381

Post by quacked »

lillecarl wrote: post #274
NavinF wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, but there are some pretty big differences between south, east, and west. In a lot of ways US states are like independent countries that share a military

Absolutely, I just disagree with trying to identify as being from somewhere else when you're born and raised in the US

I'm not identifying as being from somewhere else. I'm explaining the broad origins of northern US and southern US culture.

When it comes to talking about US history, people are quick to denigrate the US and explain how young of a country it is. When it comes to talking about the evolution and origins of American culture, people are quick to denigrate the US and explain how far removed it is from its European origins.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#382

Post by zajio1am »

I think this is just different ways to handle information asymmetry. The asking side knows value of the favor to self but does not know the cost of the favor for the answering side, while the answering side knows the cost of the favor to self, but not value of it for the asking side.

Friendly people would accept requests for favors where both costs and values are favorable, but they do not want to be taken advantage to accept low value / high cost requests, and also do not want to be rude to refuse high value / low cost requests.

In 'ask' culture, the act of asking only implies low value of the favor, so people are free to ask and free to refuse.

In 'guess' culture, the act of asking implies high value of the favor, so people have high bar for asking and high bar for refusing.

In both situations, there are ways to express higher or lower implied value of the favor (e.g., one can 'beg' instead of 'ask' to imply higher value, or one can 'express interest' instead of 'ask' to express lower value).

One could say that 'ask' / 'guess' is unfortunately named and it would be better to call it 'low ask' / 'high ask'.

Also, i am not sure if it is really a cultural/social thing, or personal/psychological thing, perhaps it is both.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#383

Post by kishmat »

there are numerous parameters to consider on this kind of topic.

you leaning into some particular culture does not make it the way a individual will change. don't make it so complex.

it is more of a context than a rigid self one, i think. Also I think what you are doing is fine unless you want to change it yourself(which you could have realised already by now).

Well, it is nice to have knowledge that there are people of different personalities and it may not be what you are trying to think it could be.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#384

Post by zestyping »

zajio1am wrote: post #382

I think this is just different ways to handle information asymmetry. The asking side knows value of the favor to self but does not know the cost of the favor for the answering side, while the answering side knows the cost of the favor to self, but not value of it for the asking side. Friendly people would accept requests for favors where both costs and values are favorable, but they do not want to be taken advantage…

This is a more nuanced and realistic characterization.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#385

Post by zajio1am »

zajio1am wrote: post #382

I think this is just different ways to handle information asymmetry. The asking side knows value of the favor to self but does not know the cost of the favor for the answering side, while the answering side knows the cost of the favor to self, but not value of it for the asking side. Friendly people would accept requests for favors where both costs and values are favorable, but they do not want to be taken advantage…

Also, while above i describe it in a symmetric way, there is an important asymmetry - which side pays the mental load of deciding whether the request is appropriate. In the 'ask' culture, it is the answering side (as the asking side just asks for what they want), in the 'guess' culture, it is the asking side (as the answering side is expected to accept.).

From this point of view, it seems fair that such cost should pay the side initiating the communication.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#386

Post by zestyping »

zajio1am wrote: post #385
zajio1am wrote: post #382

I think this is just different ways to handle information asymmetry. The asking side knows value of the favor to self but does not know the cost of the favor for the answering side, while the answering side knows the cost of the favor to self, but not value of it for the asking side. Friendly people would accept requests for favors where both costs and values are favorable, but they do not want to be taken advantage…

Also, while above i describe it in a symmetric way, there is an important asymmetry - which side pays the mental load of deciding whether the request is appropriate. In the 'ask' culture, it is the answering side (as the asking side just asks for what they want), in the 'guess' culture, it is the asking side (as the answering side is expected to accept.). From this point of view, it seems fair that such cost should p…

It's a collaboration. Both sides should work together to find a harmonious outcome; neither side should expect the other to take 100% responsibility.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#387

Post by guythedudebro »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #205
reddit_clone wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. >"Do you not have X?" In my head it sounds belligerent and accusatory. While the other form sounds polite. This negative phrasing to induce a positive response, may be a Japan only thing?

It's interesting, it somehow means you are agreeing with them if they don't have it, so they don't have to feel so bad about not having it.

Interesting. Maybe more like a "You don't have x, right?" than a "do you not have x?"

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#388

Post by dilawar »

lillecarl wrote: post #238
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

> I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) You're American, your wife is American.

Why stop here: your are Earthling, your wife is Earthling.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#389

Post by rachelshu »

nostrademons wrote: post #89

I've also heard of "Tell" culture. To use the moving example: You call up your best friend and say, "Hey, I'm moving on Saturday, come over and help me." Your friend either says "Sure, I'd love to" or "Sorry, got a hot date, catch you at your housewarming party." Ironically, Ask culture is usually used in transactional settings where you barely know someone, Guess culture is usually used in smaller community settings…

Mixed feelings on this. Tell culture allows people to express their feelings directly without prompting, but can also be used manipulatively when insisted on as a behavioral standard by someone who's overbearing relative to the people they're around.

For further reading, here's the blog post that named the concept: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rEBXN3x6kXgD4pLxs/tell-cultu...

And further discussion within the same community: https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2015/05/08/against-tell-...

There were a bunch of tumblr posts on this as well which are more work than it's worth to go recover.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#390

Post by lostlogin »

TuringTest wrote: post #284
lostlogin wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a Waldorf school and now my daughter does. At around age 10-11 children learn about death and practices around it (Norse, Egyptian, local practices) and what it means. The Waldorf philosophy holds that children start to understand that death is a permanent loss at about that age, and aims to teach them about it. Having a kid lose a pet at that age is a major thing for them to process. I love the school, but…

Is it true what they say that Waldorf is based in irrational teachings about the supernatural, and let's children go several courses without learning basic rational stuff like reading well and doing math? I'm all for growing children with creative teaching and avoiding rote memorization, but I'd be horrified if that was at the cost of missing the best years for setting the pillars of rational thought.

There was a little bit of the loopy stuff early on, but vastly less than friends who went to religious schools got. For my daughter she has been exposed to less of that crap that when she was in a state funded school.

Reading is taught later in a Steiner school than at most schools, but not to any detriment measurable later in schooling.

I’m not sure how one would accurately quantify the final outcome as demographics etc come into it. From my time at school there are surgeons, physicists, engineers (or various types), lawyers, mathematicians, accountants, tv producers, teachers etc. We had our share of dropouts too.

I also don’t believe that the early years are the most important for what is learned, and that they are more important for learning how to learn and how to enjoy the process.

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