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Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

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Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#21

Post by cf141q5325 »

dylan604 wrote: post #5
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

> The IAEA sent experts to do a radiological survey in the CEZ in April, but their focus wasn’t on determining the cause of the spikes. Investigators instead wanted to determine if Russian soldiers who dug trenches in a small section of the CEZ had released dangerous levels of radiation in that area that could have sickened the soldiers or anyone else who passed through that area. (The IAEA determined the radiation l…

Being from the West, it is very difficult to think that information black out can be achieved at such a level that younger generations would know nothing of a disaster on the level of Chernobyl.

You dont really need a blackout. How many people can actually tell you the size and location of the contamination? Even the official limits of the exclusion zone are nonsense dating back to Soviet Bureaucracy. Wind meant there are contaminated areas outside and harmless areas inside. Also like the article stated, they are unlikely to have experienced any negative impact themselves.

Also, the Greenpeace statement mentions fires, which are a far far better explanation for a spike in measurements. https://www.greenpeace.org/international/press-release/54762...

They also have pictures and mention the Russian camp was at "Stantzaya Yanov" which i cant find a reference to outside of the Greenpeace report. But i would suspect that wouldnt be directly in front of the very visible sarcophagus.

edit: Maps in the report https://www.greenpeace.de/publikationen/20220718-greenpeace-... Page 6 says the camp was 26km from the plant.

edit1: Estimates from https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/339/2018/

https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/10/339/2018/essd-10-339... with longitude and latitude and Greenpeace puts the camp at 51.1663, 29.9645 SSW of the reactor. Which would put it in a safe area. Meaning they were right to be not worried if the trenches were at the camp.

edit2: It being the byproduct of Russian navigation efforts is quite a compelling explanation. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/unprotected-russian-sol...

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#22

Post by h2odragon »

suspecting the sensors or collection network has been subverted; does it make sense to presume the normal looking signal is the true signal and the abnormal one is false data? would the opposite assumption have testable traces?

just letting paranoia run free, if theres some later "dirty bomb" whose signatures match chernobyl debris, can that now be tied to either party or has reasonable doubt been established, anyone could have been smuggling some 'stuff" out in that period?

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#23

Post by shagie »

myth_drannon wrote: post #20
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

> The IAEA sent experts to do a radiological survey in the CEZ in April, but their focus wasn’t on determining the cause of the spikes. Investigators instead wanted to determine if Russian soldiers who dug trenches in a small section of the CEZ had released dangerous levels of radiation in that area that could have sickened the soldiers or anyone else who passed through that area. (The IAEA determined the radiation l…

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

Looking for some pre 2020 content about Russia and Chernobyl...

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-pr...

> Documents from the highest levels of the Soviet Union, including notes, protocols and diaries of Politburo sessions in the immediate aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, detail a sequence of cover-up, revelation, shock, mobilization, individual bravery, and bureaucratic turf battles in the Soviet reaction, according to the “Top Secret Chernobyl” e-book published today by the National Security Archive.

> Key sources include protocols of the Politburo Operational Group on Chernobyl that were published in Russian by the journalist and former Supreme Soviet deputy Alla Yaroshinskaya in 1992. The posting today begins with Yaroshinskaya’s essay (written exclusively for this publication) reviewing the Chernobyl story and her own efforts dating back to 1986 to document and expose the lies and the secrecy that surrounded the disaster.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27787022/cherno...

> "The fact that an American, not a Russian, TV channel tells us about our own heroes is a source of shame that the pro-Kremlin media apparently cannot live down," Shepelin writes.

How the Soviet Union stayed silent during the Chernobyl disaster - https://wapo.st/3shRS4M

> Information inside Russia was sparse, too. Russian residents and even some officials were left unaware that the accident had occurred. In the news reports that trickled out, Soviet media stated that nuclear accidents like Chernobyl were "virtually impossible."

> ...

> The Soviet Union's refusal to release any information speaks to the mentality of the Kremlin. Perhaps the best explanation of trying to make sense of this mentality came from Ellen Goodman writing in 1988, shortly after the accident:

> Exactly a year ago, in Moscow, I had a conversation with a young journalist who acted as interpreter. After a session with three bureaucrats, which bored him as much me, we went to a local coffee shop and talked about journalism and censorship.

> Andre was among the elite of his Soviet generation. He was informed about America -- down to our frequent-flyer coupons -- and not reflexively defensive about the Soviet system. Yet, at one point, animatedly debating our countries' attitudes toward information, he reached for this analogy, "In the U.S.S.R. we do not tell a patient if he has cancer. Many times we treat people like they are children to be protected."

> And in many ways, those living in the Soviet Union at the time would have agreed.

---

While I can't say for certain, the reporting suggests that there is a deliberate willingness to collectively forget about Chernobyl within Russia.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#24

Post by renegade-otter »

myth_drannon wrote: post #20
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

> The IAEA sent experts to do a radiological survey in the CEZ in April, but their focus wasn’t on determining the cause of the spikes. Investigators instead wanted to determine if Russian soldiers who dug trenches in a small section of the CEZ had released dangerous levels of radiation in that area that could have sickened the soldiers or anyone else who passed through that area. (The IAEA determined the radiation l…

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

You underestimate Russia's induced ignorance about Chernobyl. Most of these 20-year-olds were from remote, shit-poor areas of Russia, and even if they went to school of some sort, it didn't matter much. You think those textbooks mentioned the incident? No.

To this day, Chernobyl is a pain point for Russia - f--k knows why because it didn't even happen there. When HBO's Chernobyl came out, Moscow went into a full-blown hysteria. They released their own show with an alternate version of events, where the whole explosion was a CIA operation.

So, no - they didn't know. That's 100% plausible.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#25

Post by 8organicbits »

myth_drannon wrote: post #20
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

> The IAEA sent experts to do a radiological survey in the CEZ in April, but their focus wasn’t on determining the cause of the spikes. Investigators instead wanted to determine if Russian soldiers who dug trenches in a small section of the CEZ had released dangerous levels of radiation in that area that could have sickened the soldiers or anyone else who passed through that area. (The IAEA determined the radiation l…

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

Removing or altering location signs[1] in a war zone is common but I wonder if that extends to safety signs [2]. There are many there, as far as I can tell. You probably don't want an army accidentally walking though a place like that and spreading radiation to the locals. Given the poaching and looting concerns, I'd guess the sign coverage is quite dense. Anyone visit before?

[1] https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44492/ukrainians-are-m...

[2] https://duckduckgo.com/?q=entry+to+chernobyl+exclusion+zone+...

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#26

Post by [deleted] »

nullc wrote: post #19
refulgentis wrote: post #3

Interesting until the extended meditations on "why didn't anyone look into this more?????" -- as laid out, IAEA knew and said so publicly, the readings were few and transitory (30m-2h), and if there was a hack, there's 0 real evidence and it's not clear to me it'd be worth disclosing publicly (Russia hacked nuclear radiation in a headline for a schoolboys prank level 'hack' that is completely unprovable)

A bunch of sensors don't just give very high readings at once by chance. There is a reason. If it had just been one sensor that would be another matter (and perhaps it needs to be replaced...) It doesn't make sense as a prank in that it was only a few sensors and not persistent, it's not like they drew a dick with the results or set them to over 9000.

[deleted]

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#27

Post by stefan_ »

nullc wrote: post #19
refulgentis wrote: post #3

Interesting until the extended meditations on "why didn't anyone look into this more?????" -- as laid out, IAEA knew and said so publicly, the readings were few and transitory (30m-2h), and if there was a hack, there's 0 real evidence and it's not clear to me it'd be worth disclosing publicly (Russia hacked nuclear radiation in a headline for a schoolboys prank level 'hack' that is completely unprovable)

A bunch of sensors don't just give very high readings at once by chance. There is a reason. If it had just been one sensor that would be another matter (and perhaps it needs to be replaced...) It doesn't make sense as a prank in that it was only a few sensors and not persistent, it's not like they drew a dick with the results or set them to over 9000.

So what? There is no conspiracy here. There are lots of other sensors not in Ukraine and they didn't report zilch. This entire article is just crazy talk.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#28

Post by ClumsyPilot »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #21
dylan604 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being from the West, it is very difficult to think that information black out can be achieved at such a level that younger generations would know nothing of a disaster on the level of Chernobyl.

You dont really need a blackout. How many people can actually tell you the size and location of the contamination? Even the official limits of the exclusion zone are nonsense dating back to Soviet Bureaucracy. Wind meant there are contaminated areas outside and harmless areas inside. Also like the article stated, they are unlikely to have experienced any negative impact themselves. Also, the Greenpeace statement ment…

exactly, I know the pyramids exist, but would you actually fund them on google maps without using the search bar?

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#29

Post by mepian »

shagie wrote: post #23
myth_drannon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

Looking for some pre 2020 content about Russia and Chernobyl... https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/nunn-lugar-russia-pr... > Documents from the highest levels of the Soviet Union, including notes, protocols and diaries of Politburo sessions in the immediate aftermath of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster in 1986, detail a sequence of cover-up, revelation, shock, mobilization, individual bravery, and bureaucratic tur…

As someone born in Russia, I can assure you that since the 1980s everyone in Russia became well aware of Chernobyl. In my oblast there were furious protests against the construction of a nuclear power plant, and Chernobyl was likely their main cause. My parents told me some horror stories about the cleanup crew of Chernobyl when I was a kid.

Re: Radiation Spikes at Chernobyl

#30

Post by mepian »

renegade-otter wrote: post #24
myth_drannon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows about Chernobyl. Most likely what they didn't know was where they are. I saw too many videos of soldiers asking locals for directions in the first days of war.

You underestimate Russia's induced ignorance about Chernobyl. Most of these 20-year-olds were from remote, shit-poor areas of Russia, and even if they went to school of some sort, it didn't matter much. You think those textbooks mentioned the incident? No. To this day, Chernobyl is a pain point for Russia - f--k knows why because it didn't even happen there . When HBO's Chernobyl came out, Moscow went into a full-blo…

That hysteria wasn't caused by the ignorance of Russia's population. Everyone knew about the disaster for a long time. I know this because I lived there until recently.
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