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Short session expiration does not help security

sjoerdlangkemper.nl

351–360 of 434 posts

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#351

If the account is for accessing employer's system then sessions have to be kept short, and users have to re-login every day. Otherwise employees who have left the company would continue to access the system. The reason Google never expires your session is because they want to track your activity and connect your activity to your account. This is not a good system to copy.

Surely you can revoke a session before it expires?

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#352

If the account is for accessing employer's system then sessions have to be kept short, and users have to re-login every day. Otherwise employees who have left the company would continue to access the system. The reason Google never expires your session is because they want to track your activity and connect your activity to your account. This is not a good system to copy.

This seems like a non issue... Can't you just invalidate existing sessions/tokens immediately when an account is suspended?

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#353

My favorite example of putting security ahead of usability: "Unexpected item in bagging area. Please remove item from bagging area." "Item removed from bagging area. Please wait: an attendant will be with you shortly." This one sets me off because I worked in the self-checkout division. The simplest way for stores to improve customer satisfaction and increase usage of self-checkout was to disable the bagging scale an…

France has a workable system - you do all interactions with the machine - it doesn't weigh your items - but a clerk oversees you (along with another 3 ppl) and checks your receipt against your bags at the end.

Like the Costco receipt checker, it's very unlikely this person will flag anything unless you're suspicious as hell. It's like those "eyes stickers" in Asia - to keep honest people honest.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#354
post #309

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

Health services also log you out after ~15min. Kaiser, One Medical, Epic Mychart, etc. Very annoying

In my experience, a large percentage of compliance officers believe that this is a non-negotiable requirement for HIPAA compliant web apps. My reading of the Security Rule is much more pragmatic, so I would argue that there are other ways to meet this standard in many situations.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#355

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

I'll add one more: Fintech app users constantly ask for short sessions.

As the developer, I really didn't want to add it, but who cares what I want.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#356
There’s a ton of these pseudo-security measures bestowed upon us by various outdated security benchmarks, which we have to follow or risk losing our certification or regulatory permissions, even though said measures in most cases reduce security.

I’m looking at you

- Sudoless single-user machine users

- VPNs

- AVs on servers

- Disabled ports

- Disabled ota protocols

- etc

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#357
post #277

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

Training people to always login makes the susceptible to phishing attacks with fake logins. It becomes second nature to put in your email and password. Whats even worst is that banks won't send messages over email instead they make you sign into their "Secure" message center. Some how email is insecure but sending the same info in a physical mailing is safer. Any time you select electronic statements instead of physi…

Not only that, they put the link to the site in the email.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#358
post #286

The main place I see short session expirations is on banking and financial apps, which seems defensible to me for a couple of reasons: 1) They're used by a wide variety of people, including people who may not own a computer or mobile device, or who may not have a backup device to use when their personal device breaks. This group is probably shrinking—more and more people have smartphones and the remaining people who…

My main bank uses username + password + (random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’ driven by select boxes), then 2FA on top, and it literally feels like they just slapped a bunch of things together to add extra barriers to auth in sequence. This is the UK. Back in Latvia I would just slide my ID card into a USB reader and cryptographically sign the session with a passcode. Same as chip & pin…

> random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’

This annoys me so much with my bank. Their app lets you enroll your account into Face ID authentication, then still ask one of the recovery questions every time.

The UX is awful. I'm so convinced that complaining anywhere won't actually help so I don't bother.

I'd love to know what the hypothetical attack scenario is that drove that decision, but I suspect there isn't one, and the app saves the username/password in encrypted device storage.

Re: Short session expiration does not help security

#359
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main bank uses username + password + (random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’ driven by select boxes), then 2FA on top, and it literally feels like they just slapped a bunch of things together to add extra barriers to auth in sequence. This is the UK. Back in Latvia I would just slide my ID card into a USB reader and cryptographically sign the session with a passcode. Same as chip & pin…

> random subset of ‘memorable word but actually unencrypted password’ This annoys me so much with my bank. Their app lets you enroll your account into Face ID authentication, then still ask one of the recovery questions every time. The UX is awful. I'm so convinced that complaining anywhere won't actually help so I don't bother. I'd love to know what the hypothetical attack scenario is that drove that decision, but I…

The more crap they shove in, the more some manager can boast about "improving security". And no one in the company wants to be the one saying no to "more security" so no one pushes back.
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