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Ask vs. Guess Culture

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#291

Post by pulsarmx »

reddit_clone wrote: post #164
sircastor wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be an obvious language barrier here, but the coupling of a positive with a negative response feels very odd to me in English. I'm reminded of the old song (it was used for an advertising jingle for a product or company I can't remember) "Yes, we have no bananas!" Adjacently, I really dislike the courtroom phrasing "Isn't it true?" that is sometimes depicted in legal dramas.

Indeed. >"Do you not have X?" In my head it sounds belligerent and accusatory. While the other form sounds polite. This negative phrasing to induce a positive response, may be a Japan only thing?

"Do you guys not have phones?"

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#292

Post by BestGuess »

burlesona wrote: post #137
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

This is fascinating to me, because I'm from the southern US and strongly align to "ask culture" and my wife is from the northwest and strongly aligns to "guess" culture. I wonder how much it's about individual family background and not strongly regional?

I reckon it has got to do with bein rural and poor, or maybe different kinds of european family cultures preserving different attitudes? Where I'm from in the south you didn't ask at all if you knew what was good for you all about keepin up appearances and you had to be all sly about helping people out. More poor somebody is more sly you got to be. Bein in a city nobody gives a darn but way back when that darn was given pretty darn hard.

Just a guess but could be that attitude has lots more to do with how many are poor or not and how many generations they've been poor, or lived in cities, like a lag time sorta thing. Nothing I really know about just sharing because it might be interesting even if wrong

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#293

Post by huijzer »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I‘ve gone through a ton of comments below and see a lot of contradicting evidence to your thoughtful suggestion. Also my girlfriend and I are both from north Europe and I notice a similar difference. Maybe the difference is mostly

> she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity

This reminds me of a quote from Buffett from about 40 years ago. He said something along the lines of "when women are raised, they hear and see a million reasons why they cannot do things whereas men see and hear a million reasons why they can do things". If I would be convinced by the world that I am not good, then sure I would treat guests amazingly well. If I would be convinced by the world I‘m amazing, then why bother treating guests well? They can say it if they need anything.

I‘m happy to hear counterarguments if you have them

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#294

Post by swayvil »

Asking as submissive act. Thus avoided.

I've seen that in internet conversations. Where a simple question would do, a prolonged process of guessing, assuming and even accusing is embarked upon. Because none of the participants wants to submit, to lose.

It's a dom/sub culture thing. USA culture is such a culture. Look at popular fiction. It's invariably concerning the dominance of rightness over wrongness.

So reality itself stands upon the form of the dom/sub relationship in a way.

It's pretty deep.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#295

Post by tempestn »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #286
tempestn wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a polite way to do this is to suggest the thing you want, rather than directly asking for it. You could complement the cake - oh, that looks delicious; what's the occasion? Or, "I'm moving next weekend - looking forward to the new place, but it's going to be a big job!" It is uncomfortable being asked something that you have to say no to, but that doesn't mean we have to just hope people will guess our needs unas…

In "guess culture" they can't offer you help unless they're certain you won't decline the offer. So they'd have to figure out first if you're hiring movers, and if not ascertain whether you already have enough friends helping you, and if not _then_ they'd offer to help you. I agree with the other commenters who say that guess culture is exhausting.

Maybe that's how it works somewhere, but it's hard for me to imagine. It can definitely be an imposition to _ask_ someone directly for help moving, as indeed they might feel obligated to agree. But it seems much less likely in a real-world context that offering someone your help would oblige them to accept. It's perfectly reasonable to explain that you have it worked out already, so you appreciate the offer but it's not necessary.

"Guess culture" could certainly be exhausting if you over-complicate it like that, but it's not necessary.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#296

Post by bb123 »

rconti wrote: post #11

> Western society is very much ask culture. I want to push back on this, but since I was raised in the US, I don't feel like I have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it's more ask culture than the Japanese, but I still feel like it's very heavily on the Guess side. This all resonates with me, though, because I haven't grown up saying "no". My parents didn't ask much of me, but it didn't cross my mind to say no to any reques…

I feel like British politeness is a huge counterpoint to this.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#297

Post by Delk »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I feel somewhat conflicted about this. I'm from Finland, and while we aren't technically Scandinavian and might be something of an outlier among Northern Europeans in general, the stereotype is that we're not fond of small talk and prefer to be to the point and perhaps even blunt. But in terms of asking for things, I don't feel like I identify with the culture of directly asking. Feeling out or giving hints that I might appreciate some help without making outright requests seems a lot less intrusive and graceful to me. And while personality is probably also a factor, I don't think it's just me.

I think we're generally a high-context culture, and the "guessing" culture as postulated in the post immediately reminds me of that. I don't know if other Northern European cultures are less high-context but it makes me wonder if high vs. low context (possibly similar to guessing vs. asking) is not quite the same axis as bluntness.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#298

Post by ketzo »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #252
red-iron-pine wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah im from the south and there is definitely a level of up-front-ness that i'm not sure the parent comment is talking about. like a level of exuberance and get-it-out-ness that often borders on belligerence "yall doin okay?"

Questions like that really... confuse me, because is it just a generic 'hello' or a serious question? In my own experience, I once had an obnoxious colleague who asked "How was your weekend?". I didn't like the question because one, I don't like to talk about what I do / did in my spare time, and two, it was leading because the guy was really really eager to talk about HIS weekend, but... I didn't care, or else I wou…

If it's coming from someone who could even remotely be considered a "host" to you, it's definitely a serious question, and they actively want to fulfill any needs you might have. Southern hospitality is a super real thing, it's pretty awesome.

If it's said as a greeting, "how y'all doing?" usually means "how are your family?," which also tends to be meant very genuinely.

Even outside of a host-guest dynamic, I do think Southerners tend to care more about pleasantries; when they ask about your weekend, they're a little more likely to really want to know.

Of course, this is all very broad strokes based on anecdotal experience. Plenty of cold/self-aggrandizing jerks in the South, too!

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#299

Post by nonethewiser »

huijzer wrote: post #293
quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

I‘ve gone through a ton of comments below and see a lot of contradicting evidence to your thoughtful suggestion. Also my girlfriend and I are both from north Europe and I notice a similar difference. Maybe the difference is mostly > she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity This reminds me of a quote from Buffett from about 40 years ago. He said something along the lines of "when women are raised, they hear…

The American south has a very distinct attitude towards guests. Very hospitable. That’s the difference in his case.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#300

Post by burlesona »

ketzo wrote: post #193
burlesona wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fascinating to me, because I'm from the southern US and strongly align to "ask culture" and my wife is from the northwest and strongly aligns to "guess" culture. I wonder how much it's about individual family background and not strongly regional?

When you say that your experience in the south is more Ask -- who is usually doing the asking, host or guest? I said this down the thread but my experience (grew up in the south) has always been that Southerners are very up-front about trying to meet your needs before you can even ask for them. That was always how I was taught to host, anyway. And I think that weirdly, that's more aligned with Guess culture: the pers…

No, for my family growing up, nobody was going to try and read your mind, if you want something say something. For her family, they are always trying to anticipate needs. For her, if I'm not anticipating needs and taking care of them -- ie, if she has to ask -- then I'm being rude.
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