Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 493 posts

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#111

Post by wrboyce »

samus wrote: post #75
sneak wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All good and meaningful relationships involve give and take, and sometimes saying no, so this reduces to "it's rude to have close human relationships with people" (because close human relationships necessarily involve sometimes saying no). There is an argument that such a worldview is slightly pathological.

There are ways around that, by phrasing questions in a different way so the other person does not have to respond with a hard "no". Yes, this requires prior acquaintance with that communication culture, and integration by relative outsiders can be difficult.

Sorry but this is bullshit and putting the onus on the wrong person. “No” is a complete sentence and I don’t see the problem with using it, if you do (after say, I’ve asked for you a slice of cake) but can’t think of another phrasing (“I’m afraid not”, “maybe after you dinner”, “ask your father”; there are endless possibilities - especially when dealing with children) then the issue is your vocabulary, and not my failure to bend over backwards phrasing the question so do you don’t have to say the, apparently dreaded, word “no”.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#112

Post by hosh »

nostrademons wrote: post #89

I've also heard of "Tell" culture. To use the moving example: You call up your best friend and say, "Hey, I'm moving on Saturday, come over and help me." Your friend either says "Sure, I'd love to" or "Sorry, got a hot date, catch you at your housewarming party." Ironically, Ask culture is usually used in transactional settings where you barely know someone, Guess culture is usually used in smaller community settings…

Also, in certain groups, people will deliberately troll each other in order suss out how they’d act under pressure… and whether they can be trusted to perform as part of a team under pressure.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#113

Post by throwanem »

throwanem wrote: post #76
galangalalgol wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be more moderate than that. "what is wrong honey?". "Nothing, I'm fine". Which can either mean, no really I'm fine, or if you don't know, you obviously don't care about me, or you know exactly what is wrong and don't pretend otherwise. I've been both parties in that conversation, and over time I have learned that ask culture works better between close friends and family. That doesn't mean I'd consider it abusi…

As a product of Southern American culture, I would note that "guess" culture as described here - specifically, the preference for indirectness and inference - is always something that exists primarily in and near interaction among strangers. It doesn't always disappear entirely in familiar relationships, but does abate significantly in favor of being more direct. (Of course, this in itself increases the chance of cul…

This also reminds me of the distinction drawn between "honor" and "dignity" cultures, as eg in [1]; I'd be interested to see how the "ask" vs. "guess" distinction maps, especially as antebellum Southern and prewar Japanese cultures both fall as strongly on the "honor" side as their modern successors fall on the "guess" side.

[1] https://alexandria.ucsb.edu/lib/ark:/48907/f37d2s7h#:~:text=....

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#114

Post by samus »

Tronno wrote: post #8

I disagree with the way these behaviors are portrayed as a cultural dichotomy. To me, the author's examples all fall under ineffective communication. Their example of "ask culture" involves stoking resentment by making unreasonable requests. This can be avoided by practicing a little empathy. Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine i…

> Ask questions, provide some basic context, and offer an escape hatch: "What are you busy with? I need X because Y. It's fine if you can't, I can also get it from Z".

The escape hatch could also just be a mere formality， especially when there is a difference in power dynamics or social rank. This is amplified in cultures where, for example, the opinions and needs of elders rank higher.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#115

Post by EGreg »

boppo1 wrote: post #104
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I’ve learned anything in my 20 year mental health journey, it’s that until you’ve addressed your childhood trauma, nothing you do will be a lasting fix for any interpersonal issues you may have.

>addressed your childhood trauma This is pretty frustrating as 90s-kid who had a Good Childhood™ and struggles with interpersonal issues. I have a close friend from childhood who also had quite a Good Childhood™ and he can't shut up about "trauma" and it seems like every two years he has this big epiphany about how he addressed some "trauma" he was previously repressing and how now that he's done so he's All Better N…

I sometimes like to say the facts out loud and challenge people so here it goes.

We live in the safest, least racist, least sexist, least antisemitic generation in history. At the same time, automation and productivity has reduced demand for human labor, and people increasingly can’t afford the rent. Perhaps the answer to many disparities isn’t systemic sexism, racism etc. but economic factors. Whatever you are worried about, your grandparents had it much worse.

Also, let’s improve our systems to stop polluting the environment and destroying ecosystems for corporate profit at the expense of future generations. That’s the major issue of our day, far bigger than climate change.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#116

Post by blargey »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

> What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you

This sort of framing highlights the worst case scenario of "guess" culture imo. Where members assume that outsiders to the "guess" culture only need to "pay attention" to pick up on all the right norms and assimilate into the community that they spent decades growing up in (and that everyone ought to, in the first place, because the "guess" culture considers itself the necessary consequence of virtues like trust and caring). Which leads to great offense being taken when people don't adhere.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#117

Post by harrylove »

I love seeing the world through new frames like this. I think it's refreshing, and forces a rethink of what I think I know.

At the same time, without a critical examination of the idea, these things have a nasty habit of becoming the next pseudoscience, like Myers-Briggs, learning styles, growth mindset, and the like.

Identifying yourself or someone else as an Asker vs. Guesser to explain behavior is about as helpful as identifying yourself as a Sagittarius or Capricorn. Fun to think about occasionally, but no basis in fact.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#118

Post by ecairns »

munificent wrote: post #27
rconti wrote: post #11

> Western society is very much ask culture. I want to push back on this, but since I was raised in the US, I don't feel like I have a leg to stand on. Perhaps it's more ask culture than the Japanese, but I still feel like it's very heavily on the Guess side. This all resonates with me, though, because I haven't grown up saying "no". My parents didn't ask much of me, but it didn't cross my mind to say no to any reques…

I don't think you can make many country-wide generalizations about this. My experience is that it varies widely by: * Region * Socioeconomic status * Invidual psychology The strongest "ask culture" people I've seen are poor people with good self esteem who grew up in historically poor areas like the South and stayed there. These people have a natural sense of "we have to take care of each other", a long-term commitme…

This seems very insightful to me. I think I'm another data point that mostly fits your observations.

Individual psychology definitely plays a huge role with me personally being on the far side of guess culture. I have pretty extreme social anxiety and the idea of asking someone for something fills me with dread every single time. Not because it shows weakness (I think), but because I don't want to impose on others. Asking someone I don't know for something is almost impossible. I can barely do it in a context where it's expected, like customer service.

I'm not wealthy, but I have moved around a bunch, especially as a child. I'd absolutely help out anyone who asked for it, but also try anticipate the needs of others.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#119

Post by [deleted] »

sircastor wrote: post #31
noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

What term would you use to describe it? Respectfully, I think you're projecting an opinion onto it. There's no inherent value in the word "Guess". A "guess" culture isn't without transactional interactions, it's just shifted the transaction to implicit expectations instead of explicit.

[deleted]

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#120

Post by hosh »

galangalalgol wrote: post #65
throwanem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing is abusive behavior, which is something I would hesitate very strongly to characterize as part of any cultural norm.

It can be more moderate than that. "what is wrong honey?". "Nothing, I'm fine". Which can either mean, no really I'm fine, or if you don't know, you obviously don't care about me, or you know exactly what is wrong and don't pretend otherwise. I've been both parties in that conversation, and over time I have learned that ask culture works better between close friends and family. That doesn't mean I'd consider it abusi…

If there is one thing I learned, it is that when it comes to life partners and family where the stakes are conmingled, for the really important stuff, it is better to be open and direct.

So I think one of the hidden dimensions here are — are you guessing because you are trying to consider the other person, or are you guessing because there is vulnerability to exposing what you really feel?

Post reply on HN