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“Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#141

Post by sfn42 »

Aurornis wrote: post #105
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to me that is so ironic about juicing is that most people who are super into things like juicing and "juice cleanses" (whatever the hell that means) are totally against "processed" foods. I'm like "What do you think a juicer is??" You just took that natural plant that's loaded with healthy fiber, removed all the fiber and concentrated it so it's mostly sugar and water. If you process it at home it's still p…

This is one of the many reasons why scientific literature differentiates between “processed” and “ultra processed”. There’s something about the whole topic that draws pedantry out of people who think it’s a binary motion. It’s not. Blending some vegetables before you drink them isn’t the same as eating an ultra processed packaged food from the store. Nobody who thinks about it beyond looking for “gotcha” opportunitie…

In my opinion, people focus too much on vague science they don't understand. All we have as far as I know, are a few fairly weak studies showing a weak correlation between ultra-processed foods consumption and certain diseases like colon cancer.

They look at multiple diseases which drastically increases the odds of false positives, they use a broad definition of ultra processed food, they base their study on people's own answers and their end result only shows a marginal increase in certain diseases like for the control group they observe a tiny effect like a 20% increase in colon cancer for the processed food consumers.

This means if 5/1000 people in the control group get this disease, it's 6/1000 for processed food consumers. It's basically nothing. It is highly likely to be caused by random variance.

This type of research is not mature enough to base life decisions on. It is a hint that there might be something worth looking into but that's all there is to it.

Most people don't know nearly enough to have any sort of informed opinion on this topic. We as a society don't know whether processed food is bad, nor how bad it might be, we just think it might be so it's frustrating when people cite shitty popsci articles as if they're facts.

The one thing we can say for sure is that we haven't observed any significant effect in the studies we have done.

For all intents and purposes, eating processed food is as far as we know completely safe. Certainly much safer than consuming alcohol.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#142

Post by maxerickson »

generalizations wrote: post #138
binary132 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve used high-fructose corn syrup in making marshmallows, it’s just corn sugar

The original point discussed was this: > They mean food that is processed industrially with a bunch of (usually unnecessary) chemicals added to stabilize or enrich the food. Oreos are a processed food. Cake you make at home from whole ingredients is not processed. The ingredients I listed aren't whole ingredients - which I would take to be e.g. flour, eggs, milk, butter, etc. If you're cooking with high-fructose corn…

This is "flour is a whole ingredient because I say so".

The properties of flour are in fact quite different than the properties of whole wheat. And of course there is then a continuum, from whole wheat flour to white flour to bleached white flour.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#143

Post by sfn42 »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #123
gardenfelder wrote: post #2

>Given the increasing popularity of juice cleanses, it is important that both patients and physicians have greater awareness of the potential for acute oxalate nephropathy in susceptible individuals with risk factors such as chronic kidney disease, gastric bypass, and antibiotic use.

These people seem to have a profound misunderstanding about how and what cleans up toxins in the body and that there's something you can "take/drink/eat" that will somehow supercede your liver and kidneys to make them pure or something. Its bizarre. In their quest to become "less full of shit" they have become maximally full of shit

People who talk about "toxins in the body" generally don't even know what "toxins in the body" means. It's like people talking about "chemicals" in food. Newsflash, literally all matter is chemicals. Food is 100% chemicals.

"But they mean artificial chemicals!"

Sure. Except people don't know which ones are "artificial", nor do they know whether these artificial chemicals are more dangerous than their natural counterparts.

They're just full of shit. They don't have a clue, they're just parroting shit they read on Instagram or whatever.

You want to prove "chemicals" are bad? Pick one specific chemical, do some studies and conclusively prove it's harmful, then say "chemical x is bad". "Chemicals are bad" is just incorrect.

Almost none of this shit is based on reality. For the things we know are bad like lead, asbestos, PFAS etc we have solid science and we act on that knowledge by writing legislation to prevent unsafe use.

Popular science is like 99% total bullshit. That's why people complain that "scientists change their mind every year". Because the scientists just published some results showing a weak link between chocolate and cancer, then a bunch of bullshit articles popped up saying chocolate cures cancer and then people wonder why they still have cancer after they ate chocolate.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#144

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

idontwantthis wrote: post #129
sockaddr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’ve thought that too. He seems to have very good editorial control and access to decent no-name actors. His channel is really great.

I’ve assumed they were his friends, but I have no evidence.

I've definitely seen a video where he says the actor is a YouTuber friend and links to their channel, so it'd make sense if other videos are also friends?

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#145

Post by generalizations »

maxerickson wrote: post #142
generalizations wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original point discussed was this: > They mean food that is processed industrially with a bunch of (usually unnecessary) chemicals added to stabilize or enrich the food. Oreos are a processed food. Cake you make at home from whole ingredients is not processed. The ingredients I listed aren't whole ingredients - which I would take to be e.g. flour, eggs, milk, butter, etc. If you're cooking with high-fructose corn…

This is "flour is a whole ingredient because I say so". The properties of flour are in fact quite different than the properties of whole wheat. And of course there is then a continuum, from whole wheat flour to white flour to bleached white flour.

I grew up with a countertop electric flour mill...I'm fully aware there's a continuum. And whole wheat flour is a far cry from heavily processed high fructose corn syrup.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#146

Post by noSyncCloud »

selimthegrim wrote: post #95
nullc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs had an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor, a rare type of pancreatic cancer. He decided to delay surgical treatment in favor of dietary treatment presumably because at the time there was little evidence for the effectiveness of surgical treatment (and obviously plenty of risk connected to it). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924574/

This gets mentioned in the angriest (rightly so) obituary-cum-book review I have ever seen written about anyone ever. https://www.reuters.com/article/idUK144083343120120222 (the biopsy line was originally after the quote from the wife abut not opening his body yet)

Great article, thanks for sharing. Not nearly enough iconoclasts on HN sometimes – a good take-down is well appreciated.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#147

Post by Obscurity4340 »

sfn42 wrote: post #143
Obscurity4340 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These people seem to have a profound misunderstanding about how and what cleans up toxins in the body and that there's something you can "take/drink/eat" that will somehow supercede your liver and kidneys to make them pure or something. Its bizarre. In their quest to become "less full of shit" they have become maximally full of shit

People who talk about "toxins in the body" generally don't even know what "toxins in the body" means. It's like people talking about "chemicals" in food. Newsflash, literally all matter is chemicals. Food is 100% chemicals. "But they mean artificial chemicals!" Sure. Except people don't know which ones are "artificial", nor do they know whether these artificial chemicals are more dangerous than their natural counterp…

What really drives me insane is the complete crockshittery of the US food pyramid/guide and the obsession with "lite" products. People should realize fat is really good for you as a source of nourishment and satiety and if you suck all of it away, you gotta replace it with even worse garbage to compensate.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#148

Post by tegmark »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #10

This sounds like a Chubbyemu video premise. (It's an excellent YouTube channel that posts semi-dramatised medical educational videos, usually following a fictionalised patient presenting to ER after ingestion of some substance, with an explanation of how that substance causes problems in the body and how a medical team might try to address it.) Actually, there has been more than one video about oxalate nephropathy al…

im finally doing it. there is this thing where people recommend a youtube channel and laboriously explain what its about and 99.99% of the time its a channel that is insanely famous and known by everyone, requiring no recommendation or explanation. doing this has a negative association because it indicates everyone is oblivious to the world, to the fact that what you watch on youtube is not special.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#149

Post by buescher »

binary132 wrote: post #131
Tcepsa wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly do cookies, quick breads, and cakes, but I don't think I've ever used corn syrup in my baking (not even for frosting) and definitely not high fructose corn syrup! Your other points seem sound, and are things that I would not be surprised to find in homemade cake (except maybe the lecithin; what use does a cake have for an emulsifier?)

I’ve used high-fructose corn syrup in making marshmallows, it’s just corn sugar

Grocery store corn syrup you might use for baking is just corn syrup, not high-fructose corn syrup.

Re: “Green smoothie cleanse” causing acute oxalate nephropathy

#150

Post by emodendroket »

crazygringo wrote: post #139
emodendroket wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that only caloric content matters. How satiating do you find a 150-calorie small bag of Doritos compared to three or four grapefruits, with a similar caloric content? For me the answer is "not very."

Grapefruits aren't a good comparison, since Google says a grapefruit has 104 calories. But if we compare a 150 calorie bag of doritos with 5 large tomatoes (each one being 33 calories), that feels about comparable in terms of satiating me in terms of giving me a break from hunger for maybe 45 minutes. On the other hand, just large tomatoes does absolutely nothing for hunger. Which is the indication for me that volume…

My mistake. I got misled by the “serving size” of half a grapefruit (who just eats half?). But volume mattering is pretty well attested and most people have experience with it. Why wouldn’t it? You physically can only fit so much food inside your stomach before it is uncomfortable to continue, no matter the caloric content.
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