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Ask vs. Guess Culture

jeanhsu.substack.com

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Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#41

Post by carabiner »

quacked wrote: post #7

I am from the northern US (Protestant Scandinavian/German) and my wife is from the southern US (Protestant English/German) [1]. In the first several years of our relationship, we had several big disputes about how to treat each other, and how to treat guests. After a while we realized that she had been brought up to feel extreme insecurity over responding to the needs of guests, and I had been brought up to be blithe…

That sounds more like urban vs rural. The southerners I've known (Alabama) are pretty blunt about asking for what they want. Going further with stereotypes, some people say west coast is guess, east is ask.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#42

Post by outsidetheparty »

The original MetaFilter comment lays the idea out in a much more balanced way than this article does, imo. The discussion of the idea here looks to be well on its way to mirroring that on MetaFilter (Ask vs Guess became a major part of that site's culture, it came up in quite a few threads over time.)

https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-bet...

(To me the most interesting thing about the concept is that you can immediately tell from people's reaction to it which category they personally fall into.)

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#43

Post by bjornlouser »

ajkjk wrote: post #20

I strongly feel this article misses the point and ends up at a harmful framing instead. Consider the example in the article: "all the family members insisted we don't drive up to visit our grandmother and see the city instead, we did it anyway, everyone was glad we did". Or the next example: "with guess-culture people isn’t as simple as asking people what they want to eat for dinner, because they will not tell you wh…

> This person, imo, deeply does not understand what is happening in these situations.

"... But all of the older relatives insisted we did not, suggesting that instead we see the sights in San Diego, that we take the kids to Sea World ..."

I think you're right. Her relatives were hoping she would guess that they didn't want her to bring the kids.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#44

Post by flatline »

smeej wrote: post #18
noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

I have lived this too.

Likewise ask culture can only be healthy if there is not a power imbalance: is the asked party really free to say no?

The title is catchy but I’m not sure how useful this dichotomy really is.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#45

Post by Tijdreiziger »

smeej wrote: post #18
noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

> […] one person's assumption that anyone who isn't reading their mind is an idiot.

Ah, I see you’ve met my dad.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#46

Post by ajkjk »

bjornlouser wrote: post #43
ajkjk wrote: post #20

I strongly feel this article misses the point and ends up at a harmful framing instead. Consider the example in the article: "all the family members insisted we don't drive up to visit our grandmother and see the city instead, we did it anyway, everyone was glad we did". Or the next example: "with guess-culture people isn’t as simple as asking people what they want to eat for dinner, because they will not tell you wh…

> This person, imo, deeply does not understand what is happening in these situations. "... But all of the older relatives insisted we did not, suggesting that instead we see the sights in San Diego, that we take the kids to Sea World ..." I think you're right. Her relatives were hoping she would guess that they didn't want her to bring the kids.

Disagree; I just think this model of "guess culture" is totally wrong.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#47

Post by kolanos »

noahlt wrote: post #2

The "Ask vs Guess" name rhetorically frames it in favor of the Askers. Asking sounds reasonable, guessing does not! But really it's not about "Guessing", it's about understanding. It's about community, and relationship, and trust. What this culture really wants is for you to pay attention and understand the people around you, rather than treating everything as a transaction.

I actually think there's an inversion of ask/guess spectrum and it is the offer/guess spectrum.

To add on to a GP's example of the northern U.S. being predominantly an ask culture and the southern U.S. being a guess culture, I think the inverse is true for offering things as opposed to asking for them.

Southern hospitality is very much an offer culture. Whether you need or want something, it will be offered. The guess culture aspect of asking flips when it comes to offering. In the south it is widely considered rude to not impulsively offer even when you know you're likely going to get a "no".

However, in the north the reverse is true. Usually you will only be offered something when it is apparent that thing is wanted or needed. It is actually considered something of an imposition to be offered something you don't want or need.

In other words, I don't think you can just cast these cultures as high context and low context, it is more a case of where the culture places contextual importance.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#48

Post by yaky »

Having just re-read Ursula LeGuin’s Left Hand of Darkness, it seems that the guess culture from the arricle would apply to shifgrethor, a “game” of social status, where a lot is said by omission, and giving advice is viewed as an ultimate insult.

Re: Ask vs. Guess Culture

#50

Post by epylar »

throwanem wrote: post #38
smeej wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I think I've primarily experienced the really dark side of guess culture, so I appreciate your framing of it as a desire for understanding when it's in a healthy context. I've experienced it in the contexts of narcissism and borderline personality, where the underlying thought is, "I am so obviously the center of the world that anyone with half a brain who's paying a whit of attention should to intuit my needs w…

What you're describing is abusive behavior, which is something I would hesitate very strongly to characterize as part of any cultural norm.

I can think of several examples.

Verbal abuse, childhood bullying, body shaming, cyberbullying, workplace harassment are all abusive and normal and accepted in many cultures.

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