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London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

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Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#131

Post by RugnirViking »

noelwelsh wrote: post #97
RugnirViking wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

birth rates in pretty much every developed nation are below replacement level. Some countries are using migration as a sort of band-aid fixed but the worst fears are starting to come true recently. Previously some people had thought or hoped that falling birthrates was/is a natural concequence of becoming rich enough, that as countries develop kids are seen as less of a necessity. But iirc newer data shows falling bi…

The human population cannot grow indefinitely without moving to other planets, which is very much infeasible now and probably infeasible into the foreseeable future. Society just has to adapt. The problem I see is our current leaders are only interested in pushing the problem down the road. Declining population (which won't actually decline till 2080-ish IIRC) is not in itself a problem.

I agree. This is a transitory state, where a lot of assumption built into the social contract will break down. If we can fix them (and presumably we will... eventually), there is nothing inherently bad about a declining population.

But in the meantime things may get interesting.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#132

Post by jccalhoun »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #108
kmlx wrote: post #103

i moved to London a decade ago, and it's incredible how much the city has changed. whole new neighborhoods have been built on the sites of former industrial parks. existing neighborhoods are expanding, and new skyscrapers are appearing all over the place. even new (and huge) infrastructure projects. as a european, this change is something special. in europe you will rarely find a city as big and important as London w…

It's astounding how much greener it is in the pictures. It can take trees ~30 years to reach maturity where they can span across an entire street. I assumed that part of the reason the nicer neighborhoods in the EU and most the US were so nice is because they had always been green and nice. But maybe it only takes ~10 years or so? Not familiar with London, but looking at the pictures, it looks like maybe this is a re…

I grew up in the rural midwest and one day I was with my parents on some back road. Dad pointed to a woods and told me that when he was a kid that was a field. So it only took a 30 or so years for it to turn back into woods.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#133

Post by ido »

illwrks wrote: post #105
ido wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We often hear here (Berlin) that the housing affordability crisis is due to not building enough housing...Yet London apparently built loads in the last 20 years and it's still as unaffordable as ever (or even more than ever)? Is there any data showing that if we let loose and build a ton of housing that purchase prices and (especially) rents will reduce significantly? It's intuitively true but all the cities you can…

Two of my neighbours don't live in their London properties... The live elsewhere in the UK and come to London once month or so for meetings. Id never seen this before, but I assume this might be part of the problem, properties underutilised.

I also know multiple people who hold apartments in Berlin but spend most of their time elsewhere, and keep it “just in case” for occasional visits.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#134

Post by pydry »

flower-giraffe wrote: post #83
pydry wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the one kind of inflation which didn't bother me too much. I still go out just as much I just drink less. That's healthier. The property situation makes me far more angry. The UK construction and property industry completely lacks market discipline and quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people, but also the shocking build quality of most properties). Then there was…

| quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people. Grenfell was a horrible tragedy. It was built as social housing in the 50’s or 60’s to a much higher standard (in terms of space and utility) than the so called luxury apartments of Canary Wharf. The installation of cladding to modernise the building to meet modern energy efficiency standards and the apparent failure to make su…

Yes, the fact that you can draw a direct line between recent watered down regulations designed to bring in more profit for the construction industry and 72 people being burned alive just makes it that much worse.

London planning isn't an accidental mess. It's a deliberately engineered mess designed to let property/land owners and construction companies act as a parasite on the productive economy.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#135

Post by darrenf »

Cullinet wrote: post #96
illwrks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder what it will be like in another few hundred years... When we first moved to London (Zone 2/3) the place we lived in used to be a large apple orchard 100-150 years prior. Where we moved to after was on the grounds of a former nunnery then recouperation hospital. And now the area we're in used to be grazing fields 100 years ago.

I was shocked the other day by seeing a physical travelcard ticket for Zones 1-9 and having to confirm from a Tube station map that a Zone 9 actually exists. This is four more than I could remember.

Zone 5 was split into two back in 1991.

Zones beyond 6 have existed since at least the late 90s. My vague recollection is that A-C basically meant "the top end of the Metropolitan line" - certainly how it seemed for me as an SW Londoner. Then at some point the letters were changed to numbers and more stations were brought inside over in Essex, Kent, etc. The Wikipedia page for stations in zones 7-9 has a changelog of sorts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_far...

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#136

Post by kiba »

noelwelsh wrote: post #97
RugnirViking wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

birth rates in pretty much every developed nation are below replacement level. Some countries are using migration as a sort of band-aid fixed but the worst fears are starting to come true recently. Previously some people had thought or hoped that falling birthrates was/is a natural concequence of becoming rich enough, that as countries develop kids are seen as less of a necessity. But iirc newer data shows falling bi…

The human population cannot grow indefinitely without moving to other planets, which is very much infeasible now and probably infeasible into the foreseeable future. Society just has to adapt. The problem I see is our current leaders are only interested in pushing the problem down the road. Declining population (which won't actually decline till 2080-ish IIRC) is not in itself a problem.

We still have plenty of room on this planet, and upcoming medical technology may change the equation on the number of people dying.

I hope to start a family before people start imposing measure to limit population growth.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#137

Post by mprovost »

Cullinet wrote: post #96
illwrks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder what it will be like in another few hundred years... When we first moved to London (Zone 2/3) the place we lived in used to be a large apple orchard 100-150 years prior. Where we moved to after was on the grounds of a former nunnery then recouperation hospital. And now the area we're in used to be grazing fields 100 years ago.

I was shocked the other day by seeing a physical travelcard ticket for Zones 1-9 and having to confirm from a Tube station map that a Zone 9 actually exists. This is four more than I could remember.

This post really highlights how much of the development in London is infill into already existing Victorian (or earlier) neighbourhoods and how the city is growing without sprawling outwards. The Victorians built the Metropolitan line out almost all the way to Aylesbury anticipating that the city would follow but it really hasn't. When you take the tube to zone 9 you start to go past horses and cows in fields. There are some really nice walks in the Chiltern hills starting from Chesham and Amersham and you don't feel like you're in London at all. We always wonder if people living there even consider themselves as Londoners.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#138

Post by pydry »

gadders wrote: post #90
pydry wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the one kind of inflation which didn't bother me too much. I still go out just as much I just drink less. That's healthier. The property situation makes me far more angry. The UK construction and property industry completely lacks market discipline and quality regulations have been reduced (see: Grenfell where that literally killed people, but also the shocking build quality of most properties). Then there was…

Net migration of 600k/year also affects property prices.

The UK could very well easily up with net emigration and still have rising rents.

New York in the 1950s ran a very high level of immigration (GIs returning from the war) and had the strongest rent controls it ever had. Neither property prices nor rents rose very much.

London only passed the population threshold it reached in 1939 in 2015 - LONG after rents and property prices had been jacked up to eye watering levels.

Building social housing isn't hard, it just requires a government that operates on behalf of the working classes (who want a roof over their head) rather than land owners (who will try to stymie that process in every way they can in order to jack up rents and asset valuations).

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#139

Post by Symbiote »

barrkel wrote: post #130
Symbiote wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various EU statistical measures that attempt to be "fair". These show London is slightly larger than Paris. Although the OECD has them at almost the same size. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_...

Sure, but it still doesn't capture the nature of the respective cities. Open up Paris and London in two side by side windows in Google Maps, at an approximately similar scale, and look at the pale yellow areas (the bits Google considers as retail rather than residential). It looks like there's more of them, spread over a larger area, in Paris than London. Paris is visibly denser than London. To the degree that the ma…

You seem to be arguing that Paris is better, and have some good points.

All I was saying is London is bigger.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#140

Post by dougSF70 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #128
jwmoz wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was great in 2012 and comfortable for SWEs (am one). Now it is honestly too expensive, £8 a pint in pub near work, it makes going out less fun.

Unfortunatley we are seeing prices like this in the US as well. I live in Denver, CO and a pint here typically runs between $5-$10 depending on the place.

A US pint is 16 fl Oz vs a UK pint which is 20 fl Oz, so add 25% to the US price to do a like-for-like.
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