Live data from Hacker News

Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the 's and 's

dodov.dev

81–90 of 183 posts

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. I think the difference is that when I send emails, I do so to communicate information, rather than to elicit people to buy a product.

Are you relying on the user's email client to convert plaintext URIs into interactive hyperlinks in transactional mail?

No. As I said, I'm not advocating for plain text only emails, just simple ones.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#82
I read the first paragraph and it seemed about right to me: there are many standards at play and many implementations of varying quality; lots of folklore, possibly false, makes the rounds and some of the more important providers are, by reputation at least, known to be difficult; one has to deal with issues of scale and stability and atomicity and reliability; there's spam.

In other words, no shortage of interesting if often maddening problems to work on here.

Then I saw that this was all just about formatting HTML mail.

Oh.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#83
post #77

"So if you want a reasonable portion of users to see your email as intended, let's say 95%, you have to stick to the most basic features of HTML and CSS..." Or, you know, you could just SEND TEXT.

Wow so clever. That totally solves the need to show logos and images, colors, formatting, centering things, making things visually appealing, etc. Can you conceive your needs and your basic understanding of an issue is not, in fact, the whole thing?

There is no "need" to show logos and images, etc. etc. In fact, far from making things visually appealing, all of that tells me (and most other people) "this is an email which I can safely delete without reading", precisely because real people not trying to sell you something rarely do that.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#84
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much sense does it make to measure and discuss response rates for transactional mails though?

Low response rates are used as a spam signal by major email providers, whatever the type of email.

How does that make any sense when those are often sent from no-reply addresses that are routed nowhere?

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#85
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow so clever. That totally solves the need to show logos and images, colors, formatting, centering things, making things visually appealing, etc. Can you conceive your needs and your basic understanding of an issue is not, in fact, the whole thing?

There is no "need" to show logos and images, etc. etc. In fact, far from making things visually appealing, all of that tells me (and most other people) "this is an email which I can safely delete without reading", precisely because real people not trying to sell you something rarely do that.

> There is no "need" to show logos and images, etc.

…yes, there is. Email is a communication medium, and like in all written communication, an image can be useful. Do I really need to explain that images are useful in human communication?

> and most other people

According to you I guess?

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#86

Text. Just use damn text. Nobody wants to look at your logo. Why biz people have to ruin everything.

Approximately no one outside of HN only wants text emails.

And the argument that anything beyond plain text is a waste and ruins everything applies to literally every single medium out there where the written word is conveyed: webpages, magazines, printed flyers, books, etc. It's laughable to think that all formatting of any kind beyond ASCII is a waste.

If it were up to HN readers, the entire world would be so ugly and boring.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#87

How do I make gmail automatically scan every incoming email for "unsubscribe" links and click them?

So when provide.autoinsurance@fhsbsh.com sends you an email that consists of nonsense text, a sketchy link, and an unsubscribe link you want to automatically follow the unsubscribe link?

Looking at my spam folder, how about hitting the unsubscribe link in email from the alias “100_free_spins” sent from top1.povertytrap.site? There’s an unsubscribe button at the bottom.

I’m slightly impressed how that spcammer is using the email “povertytrap” but I assume it’s just by chance they hacked that domain to send spam.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#88
post #76
post #3

> An email is essentially just an HTML document, like a web page, except it's visualized in an email client, rather than a web browser. However, both are capable of rendering, which is the process of turning HTML code into text, rectangles, and images, i.e. the visualization of the content. No, it is not. An email is a text document. That document might be HTML, but it doesn't have to be. And if such email is sent to…

Once again the stereotypical HN comment of « no this is all wrong, my way is right » For all communications that matter today, email is HTML. No one cares that JohnFen choses to not render them as HTML.

Whast about text messages? We must have HTML in text message too, I think, so that we can use them more effectively.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#89
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again the stereotypical HN comment of « no this is all wrong, my way is right » For all communications that matter today, email is HTML. No one cares that JohnFen choses to not render them as HTML.

Whast about text messages? We must have HTML in text message too, I think, so that we can use them more effectively.

Not necessarily HTML, but yeah? Why not?

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#90
Last time I had to deal with emails, I've used https://mjml.io/ and was very happy with it. You can version the templates, compile them as part of your build pipeline and it seems to do produce very _adequate_ HTML full of tables that looks good on all clients that we tested.
Post reply on HN