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London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

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Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#71

Post by ido »

HPsquared wrote: post #63
ido wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We often hear here (Berlin) that the housing affordability crisis is due to not building enough housing...Yet London apparently built loads in the last 20 years and it's still as unaffordable as ever (or even more than ever)? Is there any data showing that if we let loose and build a ton of housing that purchase prices and (especially) rents will reduce significantly? It's intuitively true but all the cities you can…

The construction is a response to the high prices. Prices would be even higher without the construction that did happen.

I'm not suggesting to stop building, I'm asking what is the solution to housing unaffordablity?

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#72

Post by codetrotter »

ido wrote: post #67
illwrks wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder what it will be like in another few hundred years... When we first moved to London (Zone 2/3) the place we lived in used to be a large apple orchard 100-150 years prior. Where we moved to after was on the grounds of a former nunnery then recouperation hospital. And now the area we're in used to be grazing fields 100 years ago.

It will not continue seeing such rapid growth for another few hundred years, world population will plateau by mid century and even the big cities will at some point stop growing.

Why?

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#73

Post by barnabee »

ido wrote: post #60
mytailorisrich wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the new towers you see in the pictures are flats. For instance, around Wembley Stadium the vast majority are flats. Lots of (fancy) flats on the Isle of Dogs as well. It's mostly offices only in the City and Canary Wharf.

We often hear here (Berlin) that the housing affordability crisis is due to not building enough housing...Yet London apparently built loads in the last 20 years and it's still as unaffordable as ever (or even more than ever)? Is there any data showing that if we let loose and build a ton of housing that purchase prices and (especially) rents will reduce significantly? It's intuitively true but all the cities you can…

1) Housing affordability relates to building relative to growth rate. For a variety of reasons, inlcluding both London's glboal appeal and a fact that it is so dominant culturally, economically, etc. within the UK it's likely this rate of increasse was still not enough.

2) A lot of the building has not necessarily been what you'd call affordable. While you will get some benefit moving wealthier people, expats, and short term business lets, etc. to new stuff, that's way less efficient for solving the problem of affordability than just building enough homes for the people who need them directly.

3) Too much of London's (new and existing) real estate is owned as an investment and goes mostly unoccupied. This is a scandal and there should be large tax penalties for unoccupied housing.

I think what you hear is true but it is not the whole truth. It would be easy to allow developers in to build new housing in a way that wouldn't help at all (but would make them lots of money).

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#74

Post by HPsquared »

flower-giraffe wrote: post #51
jokethrowaway wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about the cost. I would say it's pollution, crime and lack of avenues for small kids. I was living on a skyscraper and the amount of black dust I was removing from next to the windows was mind-blowing. I still remember moving 1hr out of London and feeling like I was breathing again. Not what I wanted for my kids. The amount of stabbing and theft going on was pretty crazy. It was all around you. Some p…

Canary Wharf is surrounded by poverty in a brown field redevelopment that has been a permanent construction site for over thirty years. It is not really representative of London. London is an expensive city, you’ll need several million pounds for a decent family home but if you can afford it it’s an absolutely fantastic place to live. Unfortunately the lack of affordable housing makes it less likely to be so in the l…

If you have several million pounds, you can have a nice life literally anywhere. For the same money, you'd have a better quality of life outside London.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#75

Post by ido »

codetrotter wrote: post #72
ido wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not continue seeing such rapid growth for another few hundred years, world population will plateau by mid century and even the big cities will at some point stop growing.

Why?

Because birth rates are going down worldwide and at some point the people who wanted to move away from the countryside/poor countries to the big global cities would have already moved (those left behind are older than the ones leaving, so such places will have even lower birth rates).

The major global cities will still grow in the next 200 years compared to now, just not as much as they have the previous 200 years.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#76

Post by HPsquared »

AverageDude wrote: post #40
naillo wrote: post #31

People like to say that people just have 'bullshit jobs' nowdays and I somewhat agree but this made me feel like there's actually a lot of work being done and progress being made.

Let’s cut those “bullshit” jobs and see what happens to these people’s investments.

Unproductive work is a financial drain, wouldn't it help investments to cut it? (We do have the problem of defining what's productive, though)... Economic calculation problem.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#77

Post by calpaterson »

ido wrote: post #60
mytailorisrich wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the new towers you see in the pictures are flats. For instance, around Wembley Stadium the vast majority are flats. Lots of (fancy) flats on the Isle of Dogs as well. It's mostly offices only in the City and Canary Wharf.

We often hear here (Berlin) that the housing affordability crisis is due to not building enough housing...Yet London apparently built loads in the last 20 years and it's still as unaffordable as ever (or even more than ever)? Is there any data showing that if we let loose and build a ton of housing that purchase prices and (especially) rents will reduce significantly? It's intuitively true but all the cities you can…

The answer is that London has grown (much) faster than new homes have been built.

Net migration to the UK has been about 250k per year (with some variance) since 2000. I remember reading somewhere that 2/3 of that was to London.

So you'd need to add hundreds of thousands of homes per year just to break even. Instead much less than 100k are built, usually under 40k.

There's other reasons for the price and rent rises but this is one of the big ones.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#78

Post by KptMarchewa »

ubercow13 wrote: post #36
iiiieu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, who could ever afford a £8 ping on a SWE salary. /s

Check Indeed, junior SWE jobs in London are listed starting at ~£25k/yr. Yes, £8 is expensive for a pint of lager.

This is around what you can get in Warsaw.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#79

Post by jokethrowaway »

new23d wrote: post #37
jokethrowaway wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about the cost. I would say it's pollution, crime and lack of avenues for small kids. I was living on a skyscraper and the amount of black dust I was removing from next to the windows was mind-blowing. I still remember moving 1hr out of London and feeling like I was breathing again. Not what I wanted for my kids. The amount of stabbing and theft going on was pretty crazy. It was all around you. Some p…

Your comments are a reflection of life in Tower Hamlets, where PanP etc. are. London otherwise in the N, NE and SW parts has clean air with plenty of green spaces for kids.

I was not in Tower Hamlets but in the City of London and Southwark, but I'm sure your comment is valid: London is a large area and you can get a better quality of life on the outskirts.

Still, flying from London to somewhere else or taking a train to go outside, the difference in air quality before and after was noticeable.

Re: London Then and Now: Aerial Shots Show City Grow over Past Two Decades

#80

Post by NeoTar »

gadders wrote: post #62

One thing that always surprises me when you see London from on-high is how flat it is. Barely any hills at all.

Yep - Greater London does have some hills, especially in the outer boroughs, but most of the highest points that are not within a couple of kilometres of the border are all under 140m high.
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