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China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

cnbc.com

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Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#191

Post by bohadi »

The 200$ billion hole in CN real estate is comparable in size to the SVB signature US banking crisis. In that case US treasury policy was a bailout for uninsured depositors who are wealthy supporters of the ruling blue party.

Most of the underwater property developers are wealthy patrons of the ruling red party in China and will ultimately receive similar government bailouts. Privatized gains and socialized losses it's the same movie everywhere.

But this is just theatre, on the order of 1 trillion disappearing in smoke is not going to sink the ship of any nation with 100 trillion in wealth assets.

edit: I should say this money doesn't really disappear in smoke, it's bourne on the backs of mostly middle classes amortization over the period of decades in hidden inflation taxes and marginal lower living standards.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#192

Post by tibbydudeza »

My understanding is that lots of families invested their life savings into either having no apartments on paper or half-finished ones or some close to completion but unlivable.

Social unrest or govt bailout ???.

Who is holding the can for this one - Western investors ???.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#193

Post by tibbydudeza »

modo_mario wrote: post #158
anovikov wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, start with the first 10, then remaining ones will emigrate and simply assign bounty for any head of CCP member based on the rank - until the Party is eliminated. How about that? Don't underestimate the money - it goes the long way.

>until the Party is eliminated The party has 98 million members

The Soviet Communist Party also had millions of members, but we all know how that ended - hardly with a bang and a whimper.

Folks join not for ideology but for the social standing and future career prospects - you not going to be a senior bureaucrat or military officer if you ain't a member.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#194

Post by fergal »

raincole wrote: post #134
hulitu wrote: post #108

> China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan If it is "China’s property giant" why does it "files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan" ? Why not in China ?

Bankruptcy is just you admitting to the court/gov you're not going to pay your creditors, and you're ready to face the legal consequence (like reconstruction). They filed bankruptcy in Manhattan because they are not going to pay their creditors in the US. That's it.

What is it about the topic of global finance that when someone asks a straightforward questions it illicits an answer wrapped in condescension.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#195

Post by namaria »

bohadi wrote: post #191

The 200$ billion hole in CN real estate is comparable in size to the SVB signature US banking crisis. In that case US treasury policy was a bailout for uninsured depositors who are wealthy supporters of the ruling blue party. Most of the underwater property developers are wealthy patrons of the ruling red party in China and will ultimately receive similar government bailouts. Privatized gains and socialized losses it…

The whole financial and taxation systems are engineered to reward owners of wealth and discipline laborers. The outcomes are pre-defined. I thought this was pretty well understood.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#196

Post by kasey_junk »

bohadi wrote: post #191

The 200$ billion hole in CN real estate is comparable in size to the SVB signature US banking crisis. In that case US treasury policy was a bailout for uninsured depositors who are wealthy supporters of the ruling blue party. Most of the underwater property developers are wealthy patrons of the ruling red party in China and will ultimately receive similar government bailouts. Privatized gains and socialized losses it…

Why would Chinese Communist party members bail out USD denominated bond holders when they didn’t bail out Yuan denominated bond holders in 2021?

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#197

Post by worrycue »

bohadi wrote: post #191

The 200$ billion hole in CN real estate is comparable in size to the SVB signature US banking crisis. In that case US treasury policy was a bailout for uninsured depositors who are wealthy supporters of the ruling blue party. Most of the underwater property developers are wealthy patrons of the ruling red party in China and will ultimately receive similar government bailouts. Privatized gains and socialized losses it…

This isn't their only problem though. Local Government Financing Vehicles are also having trouble servicing their debts - the only way they make money is leasing out land but the real estate sector had imploded. One of their biggest lenders, Zhongrong International Trust Co. also just failed to make payments.

Their economy seem to be swimming in bad debt.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#198

Post by raincole »

fergal wrote: post #194
raincole wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bankruptcy is just you admitting to the court/gov you're not going to pay your creditors, and you're ready to face the legal consequence (like reconstruction). They filed bankruptcy in Manhattan because they are not going to pay their creditors in the US. That's it.

What is it about the topic of global finance that when someone asks a straightforward questions it illicits an answer wrapped in condescension.

I read the question as it implies Evergrande is not a "China's property giant", which it definitely is. But I might read it wrong. I'll edit out my condescending tone.

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#199

Post by 5822130027 »

worrycue wrote: post #171
ksey3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US sure, where its blasphemous to slit the throats of the leisure classes for their excesses. In China they made Jack Ma disappear. Through out history when it gets time for the Kings & Queens to waive the debt of the plebs away, cause they have nothing left to pay, the Rentier classes take the haircut. In the US the rentiers have owned the Kings & Queens for a long time. To the point where any American instit…

Jack Ma disappeared because he openly criticized the government. The "leisure class" (of which many party members are part of) operate with impunity as long as they stay in the good graces of the party leadership. You will only hear what the CCP wants you to hear. The rest of the "leisure class" flies under the radar.

[dead]

Re: China’s property giant Evergrande files for bankruptcy protection in Manhattan

#200

Post by Eisenstein »

anovikov wrote: post #153
albatruss wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still, human history shows us that money always wins. Are you aware of what happened to the landlords in China or do you mean the landlords weren't human?

It only shows us that current Chinese regime is a civilisational dead end. Also, by that point, they didn't have the money. China was overpopulated and did not have marginal income to pay them, and the productivity was overall too low. No one in China had money, so force ruled.

> It only shows us that current Chinese regime is a civilisational dead end.

Creating an all-encompassing historical 'rule' like 'money always wins' and then discounting evidence of a blatant counter-example is not generally a method that ends in good outcomes.

See: all major failed political movements based on an ideology that refused to adapt to conditions that did not line up with its dogma.

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