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Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

economist.com

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Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#41

Post by danwee »

prisoner3986 wrote: post #32
the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

Uh hu big thing. Hint: if you want to live in a different country, you should at least try to somewhat adapt the official language spoken, and also somewhat have a sweet spot for its culture. Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. As someone else complained beforehand: the public health system is already strained, the influx of illegals, refugees and other immigrant…

> Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that.

You sure about that? For example, there's nothing better for a country like Germany to have an inmigrant who has:

- got a bacherlo/masters degree in a different country other than Germany

- has a job in a German company and earns well above the average German citizen

- pays tons of taxes

- is relatively young (between 20 and 50 years old), so doesn't get to use the health care as much as others

Besides, European countries are getting old (the 'population pyramid' is getting inverted) so they definitely need young people that work (and it doesn't even really matter if they are skilled people or not; what's needed is people in the age of working and who can spend some of their earnings in the country)

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#42

Post by bgdam »

wklm wrote: post #36
bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

Your case is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'll get an EU passport next year. Oops scratch that the wait for naturalization is now upto two years. So I'll get an EU passport in 3 years, and then the right to be able to move to any of 27 countries at my discretion will more than make up for this time and energy I've spent here.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#43

Post by ljlolel »

bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I was dreading the anmeldung bureacratic process in Berlin and found them to be nice and accommodating and even flexible to me being slightly late and needing to go acquire further documents. My personal experience has been good.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#44

Post by lproven »

hliyan wrote: post #11

The anecdotal evidence the author supplies: economic growth is slow, trains are late, IT investment as a % of GDP is half that of US and France, business license takes 120 days to acquire. Nowhere does it seem to talk about living standards of the population. As if the economy is its own end and the population is just an epiphenomenon.

There is a big clue as to the magazine's primary focus in its name.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#45

Post by rowanG077 »

bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

> The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime

Those are two things which are pretty far up the list of things I need to be fair.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#47

Post by Semaphor »

bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

I mean, I don’t have those problems. Without any workarounds being required. What do you want me to do, make up problems and fight against them?

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#48

Post by mhroth »

danwee wrote: post #41
prisoner3986 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh hu big thing. Hint: if you want to live in a different country, you should at least try to somewhat adapt the official language spoken, and also somewhat have a sweet spot for its culture. Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. As someone else complained beforehand: the public health system is already strained, the influx of illegals, refugees and other immigrant…

> Otherwise, you are mostly just coming for economic reasons, and countries don't need that. You sure about that? For example, there's nothing better for a country like Germany to have an inmigrant who has: - got a bacherlo/masters degree in a different country other than Germany - has a job in a German company and earns well above the average German citizen - pays tons of taxes - is relatively young (between 20 and…

All true. But they don't need people showing up just to gripe and complain.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#49

Post by fhd2 »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #22
the_common_man wrote: post #6

> Germany has liberalised its immigration rules, but the visa process is still glacial and the system favours refugees over professionals who might want to settle in the country. A big issue for professionals to move is they have to learn German.

not true. i know lots of people who came here to work and none of them speaks german beyond mere basics if at all. as a matter of fact all of them explain that this is because you get by well on english.

As a German with an expat partner, I'd say this depends very much. If you're working for consumer facing startups - sure. There's tons of those in Berlin and plenty in the other big cities (Germany is quite decentral). But if you want to settle a bit on the outskirts of even the big cities, it is a lot easier to understand at least some. I'd say 50% of the people we randomly interact with can hold a conversation in English.

And then there's work: There's a lot of good paying and rewarding tech jobs here that would seem foreign to SV types, in very specific domains or more traditional B2B. Getting a job at those places without speaking German is surely possible for a programmer, just a minor handicap maybe. But for other professions, it can be downright impossible.

Re: Is Germany once again the sick man of Europe?

#50

Post by skrebbel »

wklm wrote: post #36
bgdam wrote: post #26

As an immigrant (and a very well paid one paying obnoxiously high taxes), I've recommended every single person asking if they should move from India to Germany to not to. The only upgrade is in cleaner air to breathe and safety from crime. If you're in the higher earning bracket in India, then you get these there itself. So then moving to Germany from India is like stepping back into 1996. Every single thing is so ob…

Your case is a classic example of sunk cost fallacy

That or they’re omitting the positives. But it’d be a substantially less fun rant if they didn’t, so worth the perceived fallacy IMO.
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