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How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

charity.wtf

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Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#191

Post by Cushman »

leetcrew wrote: post #157
Cushman wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I perceive them as setting the expectation that I will reciprocate similarly. You know, this might be challenging to hear... I think there is such an expectation. And along the lines of what 'ketzo said above, I kind of think it's a categorically good expectation. The only thing you might be missing, not because you're not socially sensitive, but just because it's non-native communication to you, is that those peop…

> You know, this might be challenging to hear... I think there is such an expectation. And along the lines of what 'ketzo said above, I kind of think it's a categorically good expectation. > The only thing you might be missing, not because you're not socially sensitive, but just because it's non-native communication to you, is that those people genuinely care. The expectation isn't that you'll respond with a cheery r…

> I will genuinely reflect on this

And I genuinely appreciate that. Your care does shine through in those words. To me, you don’t need to say more… I don’t desire to be agreed with more than I desire peace for your life.

You’ve said you don’t seek “connection” at the office, and without knowing exactly what that means to you, I can’t assume that you’re seeking it here either. So, take this as you will:

You made me feel listened to. To me, that’s enough. Thank you.

(And yes, I’d probably put an emoji here if I could, chosen to emphasize gentleness and compassion. Likely a leaf, a sprig, or one of the non-romantic flowers. To me, this all feels so heavy without it, and lightening the words would undercut them.

Maybe a sparkle… idk. I wouldn’t normally think about it, but it seems important to say out loud, here.

When you read this, maybe you can picture a little flower, just meant to help you believe that I really do care how what I’ve said makes you feel.)

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#192

Post by felurx »

none_to_remain wrote: post #170

For me personally, people who try to talk at me this way get mentally noted as low-key malicious. Like PUA for the workplace.

Why? Of course, someone might just be toxic. But if someone is actively trying to repair a relationship, wouldn't it be better for everyone to see it as that and try and reciprocate?

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#193

Post by lodovic »

lastangryman wrote: post #174

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

I'm just hearing Bill Lumbergh.. "Yeah if you could just go ahead and run that SQL query .. that would be great"

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#194

Post by SeriousM »

m463 wrote: post #144
davesque wrote: post #96

Something I think is missing from this list: make a sacrifice for the sake of the other person. If trust has been damaged, it might take more than just talk to repair it. You may need to give the other person part of what they want as a gesture of good will. I've seen this go a long way in certain situations. Of course, this comes with some caveats. For example, if there's a power imbalance in a damaged relationship,…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

You don't put labor at the same level as imprisonment, aren't you?

You're free to leave the employer. If you want to sacrifice your life/free to to gain something in the specific target area you already know that this behavior is expected and usual there.

Labor is only imprisonment if you degrade yourself to it.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#196

Post by [deleted] »

donw wrote: post #184
ako wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I hire someone to work on my house and they fuck up, e.g., hit a water or gas pipe, I expect them to fix it asap, with no additional pay. Fucking up is not part of the job if you’re doing the hiring…… Happened to me once, long time ago, I was cleaning up an oracle db production server, and by accident deleted to system datafile of the database. Sat there till midnight to fix it, but at least I had proof the backup…

No. This highlights one of the key differences between owners and employees. Employees are not nominally liable for mistakes they make while employed, excepting things like gross negligence or malicious behavior. If an employee makes a mistake, forcing them to work "off the clock" to fix that mistake is a violation of labor law in pretty much every jurisdiction of which I am aware. An employee could volunteer to do s…

[deleted]

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#197

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

rcbdev wrote: post #186
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is typically regarded as Central Europe.

By whom? Czechs (wholly western to Poland) are always called "Eastern Europeans" in contemporary media and or any place I have ever worked before.

By just about everyone in Poland, at least.

Historically, “Eastern Europe” has been used as more of a derogatory signifier in places where it’s culturally acceptable to make jokes at the expense of Slavs, like in Germany or USA.

Let’s not forget that Vienna is actually geographically further East than Prague, though I doubt many Austrians would be comfortable considering themselves Eastern European.

Poland is pretty squarely in the middle of Europe by a number of metrics.

If we’re talking about time zone, Poland uses Central European [Summer] Time.

If we’re talking geographically, most of the claimants to the geographical midpoint of Europe are actually East of Poland.

If we’re talking politically, then the midpoint of the European Union is said to be in Würzburg, which is only 470km South-West from the border with Poland. And we can hardly say that anything East of Würzburg is Eastern Europe, since that would include all of Austria.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#198

Post by RangerScience »

jancsika wrote: post #169
jahewson wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not appropriate for the disadvantaged side to be making sacrifices. No it totally is. The entire point in it being a sacrifice is that it comes at some cost and it’s not something you have to do. If you’re basically forced to do it, it’s not a sacrifice. If it’s no sweat of your back, it’s not a sacrifice. This applies to both parties. There’s no one-dimensional thing called “power”. If there was then there wo…

> If you’re basically forced to do it, it’s not a sacrifice. You just declared this by fiat. People are forced into making sacrifices all the time, and there are no logical fallacies up their sleeves.

It’s semantics, and I don’t mean that to be dismissive - GP sounds like they’re using a definition of “sacrifice” that’s essentially voluntary; you sound like you’re using a definition of sacrifice that’s essentially hmmm maybe “diminishing” (“I am less that I was before I sacrificed”)

I do agree with GP, in sentiment - part of the impact of giving something up in these situations is that it is voluntary.

Forced sacrifice - I don’t think that can restore trust, only subservience; which, to be sure, can be seen as trust in certain situations (the loyalty of a yes-man, for example), but I’d strongly argue that that isn’t the kind of trust the article is talking about.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#199

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

_0ffh wrote: post #187
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland is typically regarded as Central Europe.

Depends if you go for geographical location or the iron curtain east/west distinction, which is still used by many and culturally relevant.

Just because it’s used, doesn’t make it valid.

I don’t think the historical Iron Curtain is a useful means by which to make that distinction today.

Unless you’re willing to proclaim to Berliners that you love being in Berlin despite it being in Eastern Europe. I think you would raise some eyebrows. Or fists.

Re: How to communicate when trust is low without digging yourself into a deeper hole

#200

Post by brightlancer »

byteware wrote: post #179
lastangryman wrote: post #174

> Say “please” and “thank you” a lot. I remember a previous role the team leaders all went on a management training course. Everyone came back and started adding "please" to every request. I found it really patronising and felt like I was being spoken to like a 5 year old. > "Can you run the SQL update in prod?" Vs > "Can you run the SQL update in prod please?" The "please" sounds like an exasperated parent that is f…

yes, coworkers thanking me for a bugfix or a feature bothers the hell out of me. man I am not doing it for you, I am doing it for money that is thanks enough

> yes, coworkers thanking me for a bugfix or a feature bothers the hell out of me. man I am not doing it for you, I am doing it for money that is thanks enough

And they're thanking you for doing something that will keep them employed.

I had a customer one time like you. I was talking with her on the phone and I was phrasing requests (as I often did) as "would you do this for me?"

"I'm not doing this for you, I'm doing this for my boss," she repeatedly responded, while repeatedly ignoring my directions.

Accept the expression of gratitude, even if your inner narcissism doesn't want you to.

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