Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the 's and 's • Hacker News Board

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#21

Post by scrollaway » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:38 PM UTC

hdodov wrote: post #2

When I first got introduced to email development, I remember I wanted to throw myself off a cliff. I couldn't believe how nonsensical everything was. I kept track of everything in a little text document, which I've now turned into a post. If you happen to be starting out with emails, I hope this can get you up to speed with exactly how everything is fucked. And if you're an Outlook survivor, I hope you'll find someth…

Since you mention MJML: I wrote a little tool called mjmgr which was meant to be a prototype of a MJML email manager for a bunch of providers. So that you can keep the source code of the MJML email checked in, but deploy it as compiled templates across various email template providers.

https://github.com/siguelaola/mjmgr

I only really did sendgrid and mailgun, but as a POC it worked well. Just putting this out there because it's useful but I don't touch it much anymore.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#22

Post by epolanski » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

internet101010 wrote: post #18

How do I make gmail automatically scan every incoming email for "unsubscribe" links and click them?

You can't get the end result by automation alone but you could automate half of it.

1) Use AppScript from google to find those.

2) Save all the links.

3) Go through them manually (because each service will want you to confirm you did not click by mistake).

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#23

Post by thfuran » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

NoraCodes wrote: post #7

I don't understand the insistence on building "beautiful" emails. I'm not the kind of person to insist on text-only e-mail, but I do think it's ridiculous to spend lots of time and money making e-mails that look like fully-fledged Web documents. Either your message does have some useful information for the reader, in which case say that and then get out of my way, or it doesn't , in which case you're a spammer. There…

>There is no third option

But only because the best way to accomplish the first option is to be cognizant of the way the information is presented so that it can be most effectively conveyed. And that can involve paying attention to layout and color and possibly including some graphics.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#24

Post by javitury » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:40 PM UTC

gabereiser wrote: post #17

alentred wrote: post #14

While we are at it, what is the most surefire way to include images into email? How do I make sure that simple images, like logos, are shown in most common email clients?

base64 encoded ">... It's the only way to ensure you're logo is forwarded to every single CC and BCC. edit I take it all back, gmail strips them. I guess as an attachement and then referenced like ">

Gmail does not support base64 images according to caniemail

https://www.caniemail.com/features/image-base64/

The most reliable method is to attach a png image to the email and reference it from the body using `<img src="cid:insert_cid_ref_here" `

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#25

Post by shortformblog » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

As someone who has custom-coded newsletters over the years, I understand the other comments here, but to me, email deserves to have room as a creative medium with visual elements, because visuals are often part of the storytelling.

MJML has been a real shot in the arm from that standpoint, as it greatly simplified what was possible.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#26

Post by LastTrain » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:42 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #10

NoraCodes wrote: post #7

I don't understand the insistence on building "beautiful" emails. I'm not the kind of person to insist on text-only e-mail, but I do think it's ridiculous to spend lots of time and money making e-mails that look like fully-fledged Web documents. Either your message does have some useful information for the reader, in which case say that and then get out of my way, or it doesn't , in which case you're a spammer. There…

Perhaps that is your response, but it’s not true of everybody. I’ve done a lot of experiments with different types of email, and beautiful emails always get significantly better response rates.

So, spam.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#27

Post by bilalq » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

mr_mitm wrote: post #16

globalreset wrote: post #11

Text. Just use damn text. Nobody wants to look at your logo. Why biz people have to ruin everything.

I'm pleasantly surprised that amazon actually sends plain text emails. Pretty much every other corporation insists on HTML mails.

I just checked, and they don't. It's certainly plain looking and without fancy styling/formatting, but they do send content-type text/html. The links and tracking pixel images are why they need HTML, I guess.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#28

Post by jgalt212 » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #8

jgalt212 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume your preferred browser is lynx, or maybe you just pipe curl into emacs?

Umm, no? I don't understand your point...

> And if such email is sent to me, the HTML is never rendered because I don't allow it.

This part feels like you're being difficult for the sake of being difficult. I agree that presentation >> content for many emails, but stuff like bolding, monospace, and inline images is genuinely useful in emails.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#29

Post by SAI_Peregrinus » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

alentred wrote: post #14

While we are at it, what is the most surefire way to include images into email? How do I make sure that simple images, like logos, are shown in most common email clients?

You don't. Common email clients block images by default, because advertisers used them for tracking.

Or you make ASCII art of the logo.

Re: Why does email development have to suck? – Explaining all the <tr>'s and <td>'s

#30

Post by legitster » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:49 PM UTC

As someone who is very familiar with designing and developing emails, I think it's actually a pretty happy medium between format and freedom. Not everything needs to be a responsive, javascript-riddled design with interactivity. 600px-wide text with graphics does the job. (The irony is that often plaintext emails perform better)

The problem is the lack of consistency between email clients. It's crazy how each email client has a completely different and crazy idea for how to interpret basic HTML. And heaven help you if you have a brand designer breathing down your neck about dark mode...