Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests • Hacker News Board

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#31

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Extincti... Humans were the reason, on all continents. https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline "By around 10,000 years ago we see a huge decline of wild mammals. It’s hard to give a precise estimate of the size of these losses millennia ago, but they were large: likely in the range of 25% to 50%." "It wasn’t just that we lost a lot of mammals. It was almost e…

I note that the megafauna extinction was done by people of all races and creeds, long before capitalism existed.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#32

Post by nologic01 » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

There is a certain myth that pre-industial peoples were in a more balanced relationship with nature.

While less powerful technologies and thus more direct dependence on natural processes and cycles made people more atuned to nature, the broad pattern seems to be one of unhindered consumption (deforestation, hunting etc) the impact of which was limited only by the relatively small population size.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#33

Post by lumost » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Extincti... Humans were the reason, on all continents. https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline "By around 10,000 years ago we see a huge decline of wild mammals. It’s hard to give a precise estimate of the size of these losses millennia ago, but they were large: likely in the range of 25% to 50%." "It wasn’t just that we lost a lot of mammals. It was almost e…

Would be interesting if the myth of Dragons breathing fire was because we used fire to kill the largest/scariest megafauna.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#34

Post by jacquesm » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:16 PM UTC

nologic01 wrote: post #32

There is a certain myth that pre-industial peoples were in a more balanced relationship with nature. While less powerful technologies and thus more direct dependence on natural processes and cycles made people more atuned to nature, the broad pattern seems to be one of unhindered consumption (deforestation, hunting etc) the impact of which was limited only by the relatively small population size.

And by the lack of our present day very powerful tools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvester_(forestry)

That sort of thing can level a whole forest in a very small fraction of the time it took to grow.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#35

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:17 PM UTC

myshpa wrote: post #8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Extincti... Humans were the reason, on all continents. https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammal-decline "By around 10,000 years ago we see a huge decline of wild mammals. It’s hard to give a precise estimate of the size of these losses millennia ago, but they were large: likely in the range of 25% to 50%." "It wasn’t just that we lost a lot of mammals. It was almost e…

[deleted]

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#36

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:17 PM UTC

nologic01 wrote: post #32

There is a certain myth that pre-industial peoples were in a more balanced relationship with nature. While less powerful technologies and thus more direct dependence on natural processes and cycles made people more atuned to nature, the broad pattern seems to be one of unhindered consumption (deforestation, hunting etc) the impact of which was limited only by the relatively small population size.

[deleted]

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#37

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #29

myshpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/woolly-mammoths-death-... Last mammoths died 4000 years ago, and they might have even lived longer, if short-term events hadn’t tainted their water and drained their food supply. It wasn't climate change that killed off the mammoths; it was humans. https://www.google.com/search?q=mammoth+house&tbm=isch We ate them all. It was only when there were no big animals left to hunt that…

And yet, for some reason, ancient humans decided not to eat all the elephants. No, it was climate change. The last, small population of mammoths that survived until 4000 years ago on Wrangel Island never came in contact with humans. They died because they were ill suited for the climate they lived in.

[deleted]

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#38

Post by ceejayoz » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #29

myshpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/woolly-mammoths-death-... Last mammoths died 4000 years ago, and they might have even lived longer, if short-term events hadn’t tainted their water and drained their food supply. It wasn't climate change that killed off the mammoths; it was humans. https://www.google.com/search?q=mammoth+house&tbm=isch We ate them all. It was only when there were no big animals left to hunt that…

And yet, for some reason, ancient humans decided not to eat all the elephants. No, it was climate change. The last, small population of mammoths that survived until 4000 years ago on Wrangel Island never came in contact with humans. They died because they were ill suited for the climate they lived in.

Humans got rid of plenty of elephants. "Both" is likely the answer in all of these extinction events.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7548514

> One million years ago, elephants and their cousins roamed the five major continents of the earth. Then humans came along. Today elephants can be found only in portions of sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia.

> The two most argued hypotheses for their decline are climatic changes and over-hunting by humans. A recent archaeological expedition dug up information that may support the latter.

> Exploring 41 sites ranging from 1.8 million to 10,000 years old, Todd Surovell of the University of Wyoming found that interactions between humans and elephants matched up with successive waves of human population expansion. As the human populations in those sites continued to grow, the number of elephants shrank and, in some sites, disappeared.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#39

Post by samstave » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:25 PM UTC

pmayrgundter wrote: post #10

Seems that Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis might fit these observations too. "We obtained radiocarbon dates on 172 specimens from seven extinct and one extant species... spanning 15.6 to 10.0 thousand calendar years before present (ka)." YDIH event is estimated at 12900 BP and includes vast wildfires in its scenario, including in North America. Contrast that with the idea that humans have been in Sapiens form for 200…

In addition to seed vaults, we need "carbon vaults" but in a soil core style and we can comm with futures on the states of our environ, not just seeds.

Also, and catagorically -- we need the EVERYTHING of seed vaults to be open and public.

How were these chosen, put in there, harvesting, maintaining, climates, history -- there are PBs of data that need be included in these things.

Re: Ancient fires drove large mammals extinct, study suggests

#40

Post by myshpa » Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 9:25 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #29

myshpa wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/08/us/woolly-mammoths-death-... Last mammoths died 4000 years ago, and they might have even lived longer, if short-term events hadn’t tainted their water and drained their food supply. It wasn't climate change that killed off the mammoths; it was humans. https://www.google.com/search?q=mammoth+house&tbm=isch We ate them all. It was only when there were no big animals left to hunt that…

And yet, for some reason, ancient humans decided not to eat all the elephants. No, it was climate change. The last, small population of mammoths that survived until 4000 years ago on Wrangel Island never came in contact with humans. They died because they were ill suited for the climate they lived in.

> ancient humans decided not to eat all the elephants

Who knows why? Larger size, slower reproductive rates, and adaptations to colder climates? Maybe elephants were more socially organized and were harder to hunt? Maybe their habitats were not so densely populated by humans? We can only speculate.

> No, it was climate change.

While climate change certainly played a role, it's undeniable that the QME would not have been as extensive if it weren't for human involvement.

> never came in contact with humans

That's not clear, iirc.