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Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

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Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#141

Post by strken »

dsr_ wrote: post #99
ceejayoz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Known as the paradox of tolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

If you stop treating it as a moral commandment and instead consider it a treaty which allows civilization to exist, it becomes obvious that it doesn't apply to those who won't remain bound by it. It's not a paradox. Tolerance is for all points of view that will allow the discussion to continue.

I trace tolerance in general back to the religious tolerance introduced by the Peace of Westphalia, and the centuries of religious war that preceded it. It obviously goes much further back, but that's the archetypical example for me.

Seen in this light, tolerance is somewhere between symbiosis and mutually assured destruction, and much less wishy-washy than everyone thinks it is.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#142

Post by tibbydudeza »

devnullbrain wrote: post #36
kmeisthax wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was explicitly one of the things people were worried about when he bought Twitter. If you didn't notice this your personal filter bubble is giving you ideological blind spots.

Twitter now bravely, aggressively exposes me to both left-wing and right-wing politics [1] [1] for a country I don't live in

Yes when I could still view tweets without a login I got some shit about some villian called Dark Brandon and a deranged woman using steroids called Margory not from Game Of Thrones.

WTF.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#143

Post by monksy »

cwkoss wrote: post #138
monksy wrote: post #136

I always take this individual with a grain of salt. I originally supported her as that she was an enthusiast and talking about making things. However, she has a strong tendency to dramatize things and it's very easy to get caught up in her net. Context: She started raking a maker site (I think it was instructables) about quietly dropping Chinese character support. She went a huge tirade that it was racism and it was…

Here's the thread: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132928236969037005... She called it Sinophobic, not racist, which seems fair. In the most charitable light, instructables was apathetic about their Chinese users. I can't imagine how bad their engineering org would have to be for this to be an unintentional change. I'm guessing you're one of deleted replies so we'll never know for sure, but from the tone of…

Yep that's the one. I deleted my account after the takeover by Musk.

That was quite a while ago. You're right, apparently she didn't say mansplaining, at least in that tweet she didn't (not sure about the others I can't see the full statement anymore). But the conversation we had was incredibly insulting to me, she ended up quote tweeting me to amplify her attack, and blocked me. It was super weird to have a disjointed conversation where she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses.. but yet she yells racism/sinophobia.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#144

Post by tibbydudeza »

It is not like she is going to be sent to a re-education camp but to me it seems there are certain things that are tolerated for now in China - you can look like a fetish doll and be lesbian and make tech videos but criticism of the paramount leader and the party is not on.

When the Taiwanese/US conflict eventually comes then it will get way worse and we are going to see things like LGBTQ is a Western evil etc ....

She really needs to leave now if she wants to be true to herself.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#146

Post by cwkoss »

monksy wrote: post #143
cwkoss wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thread: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/132928236969037005... She called it Sinophobic, not racist, which seems fair. In the most charitable light, instructables was apathetic about their Chinese users. I can't imagine how bad their engineering org would have to be for this to be an unintentional change. I'm guessing you're one of deleted replies so we'll never know for sure, but from the tone of…

Yep that's the one. I deleted my account after the takeover by Musk. That was quite a while ago. You're right, apparently she didn't say mansplaining, at least in that tweet she didn't (not sure about the others I can't see the full statement anymore). But the conversation we had was incredibly insulting to me, she ended up quote tweeting me to amplify her attack, and blocked me. It was super weird to have a disjoint…

> she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses

I think this is an incredibly patronizing perspective. She works/worked as a software developer for many years.

Instructables used to support Chinese characters, and someone made a decision that broke that support and it got pushed to prod. (Did someone change the text encoding of UGC and migrate the DB without thinking about other languages?!) At best it was the result of incompetence and apathy.

FWIW, it looks like instructables has Chinese character support again today. I bet her tweets played some role in getting that fixed.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#148

Post by reducesuffering »

mcpackieh wrote: post #130
jrflowers wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense. “South Korean journalist” is a very clear way of saying “western journalist” also I’m sure “anti white racist” isn’t any sort of culture war word salad.

A South Korean working for an American media organization, specifically called out as western, is a western journalist as I see it. The term "Western" is imprecise and should usually be avoided for this reason, but South Korea itself is often ranked among the Western nations in the economic and geopolitical alignment senses of the term. And it's fair to say that any journalist working for an American media organizati…

> Mentioning that somebody is from South Korea does not constitute a refutation of that person being a western journalist

I don't understand other peoples' denial of the intent with GP's comment. GP specifically quoted the sentence that ended with "Western journalist" and followed that with "South Korean journalist", as an implied correction, when that journalist's South Korean birthplace could hardly be any consideration into her journalism, when she's been living quite the western life since she was 3 years old.

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#149

Post by reducesuffering »

paleface wrote: post #101
reducesuffering wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re refuting her being a Western journalist because of her ethnicity? She’s been in the US since she was 3 years old, raised Southern Baptist, attended Ivies, and is a US citizen…

I’m providing context, to the parent comment. My reasoning is multi faceted. You’re welcome to read whatever you like, into why I provided the aforementioned context - but it’s probable, you’d be wrong. > […] and is a US citizen […] From 2017, according to Wikipedia. I’ve been following the rise of Naomi Wu, for a long time. I’ve seen her skills, and abilities, called into question by Dale Dougherty, of Make Media/Ma…

> My reasoning is multi faceted. You’re welcome to read whatever you like, into why I provided the aforementioned context - but it’s probable, you’d be wrong.

Your reasoning is multi faceted, but instead of explaining your reasoning you waste your breath telling me I'm probably wrong? Good explanation.

I don't really care why you did it. Just that you're incorrect in adding "South Korean journalist" as a follow-on to her being labelled a "Western journalist."

Re: Naomi Wu and the Silence That Speaks Volumes

#150

Post by agos »

cwkoss wrote: post #146
monksy wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep that's the one. I deleted my account after the takeover by Musk. That was quite a while ago. You're right, apparently she didn't say mansplaining, at least in that tweet she didn't (not sure about the others I can't see the full statement anymore). But the conversation we had was incredibly insulting to me, she ended up quote tweeting me to amplify her attack, and blocked me. It was super weird to have a disjoint…

> she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses I think this is an incredibly patronizing perspective. She works/worked as a software developer for many years. Instructables used to support Chinese characters, and someone made a decision that broke that support and it got pushed to prod. (Did someone change the text encoding of UGC and migrate the DB without thinking about other language…

> > she doesn't seem to understand prioritization/feature cutting by businesses > > I think this is an incredibly patronizing perspective. She works/worked as a software developer for many years.

tons of people work in the software developing business and yet fail to understand prioritization. I don't think it was the issue with Wu, but it's not surprising in general

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