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This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

thisamericanlife.org

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Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#171

Post by icebraining »

fleitz wrote: post #151
larrys wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We didn't think that he was lying to us. That was a mistake." It's scary how easy it is to socially engineer people and get what you want. While some of this comes from experience I feel that some people are just wired in a way that makes them easier to dupe independent of their education and intelligence.

People don't fact check what they want to hear and which supports existing narratives. The largest company in the world making their money on the backs of exploiting the very poorest is a common trope so it's one that doesn't get much fact checking. People aren't wired that way, it takes a good 12 years of teaching them to regurgitate 'quasi-facts' to get them out of their more curious fact checking nature. Every kid…

The largest company in the world making their money on the backs of exploiting the very poorest is a common trope so it's one that doesn't get much fact checking.

Except they did fact check those parts:

"In our original broadcast, we fact checked all the things that Daisey said about Apple's operations in China," says Glass, "and those parts of his story were true, except for the underage workers, who are rare. We reported that discrepancy in the original show. (...)"

What wasn't true was the stuff that the guy claim to had experienced personally.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#172

Post by grabastic »

tptacek wrote: post #88
grabastic wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for posting the email. I'm a Chicago Public Radio member, too, but I didn't get an email. I'd certainly like to be on this list... checking spam folders now...

I think this is the one time I've ever gotten mail from it that I wanted, if that saves you some time.

ha! It does. Thanks.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#173

Post by InclinedPlane »

tptacek wrote: post #41
twoodfin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Fox "easy"? They've never, AFAIK, broadcast anything requiring a major retraction on the scale of CNN's Tailwind story or CBS and the "fake but accurate" Bush National Guard memos.

Can we cut this thread short and just stipulate that all the major media outlets have had slipups in the past? I think we can all see where this particular argument leads, and it's nowhere productive.

Let's not cut it short. This isn't a digression, this is the subject at hand.

Calling lapses of journalistic integrity "slip-ups" is a disservice to serious journalism. Running a story without adequate fact checking because it will gain you viewers or because it closely aligns to your biases is a serious breach and shouldn't be downplayed, no matter what the ideology of the perpetrators are. The media is in a sorry state these days and this is a big part of why.

Edit: On second thought it's possible I may have misinterpreted your intent. If you mean that it's not worthwhile to delve into ideologically based score keeping, then I agree. I only object to the notion that we shouldn't highlight past transgressions, or that we should downplay them as effectively "accidents". In reality there is a history of effective hoaxes and "black bag" operations involving the press, in some of the most egregious cases where members of the press were fully complicit. That's worth talking about and bringing to the surface even if an attempted reckoning of the integrity of, say, Fox News vs. CBS is not.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#174

Post by icebraining »

tptacek wrote: post #34
megaduck wrote: post #22

What's really tragic here is that the truth in Mr. Daisey's story will get dragged down by the weight of his lies. Chinese factory conditions are often horrible, and there's often a blatant disregard for human life and dignity. Mr. Daisey did a pretty good job of conveying these ideas in a way that well-heeled westerners could understand at a gut level. However, his pursuit of storytelling over journalism is going to…

What "truth" in his story? How do you know? The most dangerous thing you can do with a story like this is try to pick apart the things that seem true; your brain is wired to make the wrong things seem authentic.

From the article:

"In our original broadcast, we fact checked all the things that Daisey said about Apple's operations in China," says Glass, "and those parts of his story were true, except for the underage workers, who are rare. We reported that discrepancy in the original show (...)"

Apparently the lies are more about what he claimed to have personally experienced.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#175

Post by tsotha »

yajoe wrote: post #63
jlarocco wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but the marketplace slip up seems pretty inexcusable. I could see if the guy had maybe not earned some medals he claimed he had, or if he was lower rank than he claimed, but he claimed to be a returning veteran and was never even in the army. Maybe it's just me, but verifying his army background and veteran status would be the first thing I would check going with a story titled, "Returning veteran has few…

Marketplace purchased the story from another non-profit producer ( http://www.mylifeistrue.org/ ). They assumed the original journalists had done the basic due diligence, so blaming marketplace for failing the obvious background checks is a bit unfair. They took accountability for someone else's mistake.

That doesn't cut it for me. Media organizations ought to be doing their own reporting, and where they don't they need to be going with reputable organizations with standards and procedures in place to keep this kind of thing from happening.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#176

Post by tbsdy »

bdunbar wrote: post #167
jbooth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR isn't supposed to be leftist, it's supposed to be journalism. That's what separates them from other outlets, they're either focused on advocacy (fox, currentTV) or entertainment (CNN, MSNBC).

It is not _supposed_ to be leftist, but that's sure the way they lean. I hear this asked, once in a while, on WPR, when the station manager is on a call-in show in the morning: why do you guys program to the left. And the answer is (I'm paraphrasing) That's who our audience is, so that's what we program for. Heck, last week he as much admitted as such when he noted that they focused more on politics since the electio…

I really think that if the manager said this, then there would be major ructions. Can you point to what he said exactly? It would be a scandal if this is what he really said.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#177

Post by oodalolly »

beatle wrote: post #121
larrys wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh "one more thing". There's Henry Blodget as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Blodget

what do you think about James Frey and Henry Blodget? exactly.

There was enough of a backlash, especially in the literary community (who silently give all memoirs wiggle-room for truthiness), to Oprah's public castigation that James Frey isn't really thought of negatively. More people remember Oprah's childish need for revenge over Frey changing the way a character committed suicide.

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#179

Post by bdunbar »

tbsdy wrote: post #176
bdunbar wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not _supposed_ to be leftist, but that's sure the way they lean. I hear this asked, once in a while, on WPR, when the station manager is on a call-in show in the morning: why do you guys program to the left. And the answer is (I'm paraphrasing) That's who our audience is, so that's what we program for. Heck, last week he as much admitted as such when he noted that they focused more on politics since the electio…

I really think that if the manager said this, then there would be major ructions. Can you point to what he said exactly? It would be a scandal if this is what he really said.

Can you point to what he said exactly?

I was in the car, listening because they were going on about Jean Ferraca - whom I really dig. And it did catch me out as something extraordinary, but not unexpected, for WPR. I started to write it down when I got to my desk and thought 'whatever'.

Joy Cardin show for 3/12/2012, show number 120312C. I'll download and give it a re-listen, reply here.

Listening twice to Cardin - the things I do for integrity.

Show is archived here: http://www.wpr.org/webcasting/audioarchives_display.cfm?Code...

Re: This American Life Retracting "Mr. Daisey & The Apple Factory"

#180

Post by jbooth »

bdunbar wrote: post #167
jbooth wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NPR isn't supposed to be leftist, it's supposed to be journalism. That's what separates them from other outlets, they're either focused on advocacy (fox, currentTV) or entertainment (CNN, MSNBC).

It is not _supposed_ to be leftist, but that's sure the way they lean. I hear this asked, once in a while, on WPR, when the station manager is on a call-in show in the morning: why do you guys program to the left. And the answer is (I'm paraphrasing) That's who our audience is, so that's what we program for. Heck, last week he as much admitted as such when he noted that they focused more on politics since the electio…

In a world where 50% of primary voters in Miss and Bama last week believed Obama's a muslim, yeah, I guess journalism leans to the left.

I mean, what would consist of "balanced" in your view? The science leads towards a global warming hypothesis, and what's what they report. Most non-foxnews viewers agree that no WMD were found in Iraq. How are they supposed to split the difference on stuff like that?

NPR does not have ranting opinion shows that are political first. They have programs that are intended to inform. To the extent that liberals are more attracted to outlets like NPR than they are to outlets like currentTV, that's a statement about liberals, not about NPR.

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