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Why Tailwind CSS Won

matt-rickard.com

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Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#431

Post by troupo »

mablopoule wrote: post #196
troupo wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> quite clean when you use a sane DOM structure, CSS variables, and well thought out CSS selectors. I've yet to see a single project that doesn't fail on all three.

I'm sadly not surprised to hear that, same for another poster who had the displeasure of working with a codebase with !important sprinkled everywhere. Truth is I've been spoiled on that front because I had the luck to work for many year in a company where the CTO was a very talented dude who lived and breathed HTML/CSS since the mid-2000's, and who was quite thoughtful about that kind of stuff, so I had a first-hand…

So, to have what you have you need a "very talented dude who lived and breathed CSS and HTML".

Technology that makes it easier to make bad decisions than good decisions is not a good technology.

> This is why it's a bit disheartening to see so many front-end framework working against the plateform, even even marketing against it

None of the frameworks I know of do that.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#432

Post by Spivak »

Rumudiez wrote: post #395
ceejayoz wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for those that prefer a different editor? A plugin is likely available for that, too. I use PHPStorm a lot; https://www.jetbrains.com/help/phpstorm/tailwind-css.html Panic's Nova? https://extensions.panic.com/extensions/jasonplatts/jasonpla... Vim? https://vimawesome.com/plugin/coc-tailwindcss etc.

If I made a hammer but you need a special glove to use it proficiently, then I didn’t make a very good hammer

You mean like welding gloves?

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#433

Post by marcosdumay »

emmacharp wrote: post #236
larrymyers wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've encountered this situation in multiple projects where style lint was enabled, with only the defaults, and passed the linter without issue. Tailwind is seeing steadily increasingly popularity (and the accompanying backlash) because it is straight forward and does not require something like stylelint to keep you from hurting yourself.

Well, that is not using Stylelint I'd say. Within half a day of configuring, you can prevent almost all of the problems denounced in this thread. Ultimately, it really is "a couple hours of thinking/configuring a linter vs. multiple layers of abstraction, complexity and dependencies added to the codebase." Maybe I'm missing something (and be my guest if I do!) but there is an objectively better choice here.

Well, that means stylelint has a problem. They should be talking about how to solve it, because nobody wants to not enable debuging information on a develoepr build. If the devs do not acknowledge this as a problem, this means stylelint is a bad piece of software.

I really dislike sass the way it's normally used. It was once a necessary hack, but it's mostly not useful anymore. Something that just concatenates your CSS @include on deployment would bring more value nowadays.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#434

Post by gpspake »

blitz_skull wrote: post #267
keyle wrote: post #140

Gray beard's 5c: Tailwind is a farce and a catastrophe. It's as modern as the style parameter is, and it's as reusable as a moving a dirt pile from one corner to the next. You're not learning anything valuable by learning Tailwind. Learn CSS, that will stick with you for the next 20 years. It amuses me when a library is implemented 'with tailwind', which means it's totally useless to the people _not using tailwind_,…

Cool hot-take but it’s not true. You’re literally learning CSS when you learn tailwind. And no one (good) picks up a tool solely because it’s shiny, they pick it up because they find it has utility, which evidently LOTS of people do. And if you don’t think it’s reusable then you at least need to bring an argument for why that’s so because the docs, personal anecdote, and the opinion of LOTS of people is completely op…

Yeah, I always describe tailwind as a lightweight classname-based abstraction over native css rules. It's a _good_ abstraction because it doesn't obfuscate the actual css rules; you're still wielding css when you use it. Colocating styles with components using short hand for css rules is brilliant and now that I've tasted it, I'm averse to our tradition of hiding things behind a bunch of subjective class names in a different file. Not too mention the optimization of removing unused styles based on the classnames used. Tailwind is good

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#435

Post by cosmotic »

cdelsolar wrote: post #415
keyle wrote: post #140

Gray beard's 5c: Tailwind is a farce and a catastrophe. It's as modern as the style parameter is, and it's as reusable as a moving a dirt pile from one corner to the next. You're not learning anything valuable by learning Tailwind. Learn CSS, that will stick with you for the next 20 years. It amuses me when a library is implemented 'with tailwind', which means it's totally useless to the people _not using tailwind_,…

Even grayer beard's 5c (well, I'm still under 40, but still): You could not pay me enough to learn CSS. Every time I have to debug CSS there go many valuable hours of my life. With an insane amount of trial and error and judicious use of Chrome's dev tools I can usually hack some garbage together, until the next time I have to figure out how to remove the background of a button. In the literal 90s I was building full…

> How did it get this way?

Users were enamored by custom drawn UIs, so designers started demanding custom drawn UIs instead of native widgets. Most users don't understand what they lost and now pawing at interfaces to discover how they work is the new norm.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#436

Post by pavel_lishin »

cdelsolar wrote: post #415
keyle wrote: post #140

Gray beard's 5c: Tailwind is a farce and a catastrophe. It's as modern as the style parameter is, and it's as reusable as a moving a dirt pile from one corner to the next. You're not learning anything valuable by learning Tailwind. Learn CSS, that will stick with you for the next 20 years. It amuses me when a library is implemented 'with tailwind', which means it's totally useless to the people _not using tailwind_,…

Even grayer beard's 5c (well, I'm still under 40, but still): You could not pay me enough to learn CSS. Every time I have to debug CSS there go many valuable hours of my life. With an insane amount of trial and error and judicious use of Chrome's dev tools I can usually hack some garbage together, until the next time I have to figure out how to remove the background of a button. In the literal 90s I was building full…

Don't forget that every few years, some new styling standard comes out. Forget tables, everything is floating divs. Forget floating divs, it's flexbox now. Forget flexbox, we're using columns.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#437

Post by LapsangGuzzler »

LocalPCGuy wrote: post #417
LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stayed away from Tailwind for the exact reasons you described until i joined a company that used it heavily and now I really see the value of it. I’m weary of new tools and cargo cult but Tailwind won me over. It really shines for apps that are changing rapidly and are at risk for generating dead CSS, which has been a problem in pretty much every commercial codebase I’ve ever worked on. Tailwind adds a simple, stra…

I get the challenge of dead CSS, I think there are strategies for managing that in complex apps without "ditching" CSS. And my understanding of Tailwinds is that it starts to break down for larger/complex apps also (but I've only used it on smaller things personally so that's just based on things I've read). I never try to be dogmatic about new things - so I'd try it again. I just haven't seen the benefits yet myself…

> there are other strategies

True, but those usually involve adding some sort of linter to ensure that your style sheets are clean, which is an additional build step, which is an opportunity for a build to fail. Tailwind gives me this out of the box and doesn’t require any sort of manual lifting because it does this automatically.

> Tailwind starts to break down for larger/complex apps also

This hasn’t been the case for us, I’m on a team of about 50 devs contributing to a 2 year old monolith and Tailwind hasn’t once gotten in my way.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#438

Post by xtian »

epolanski wrote: post #276
xtian wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience mirrors yours 100%. What the parent comments seem to be describing are Tailwind in a context where people don’t know CSS that well. Yes, that will be a catastrophe. But so will SASS or vanilla CSS — even more so. Tailwind is a utility, not a replacement for fundamental knowledge.

On the other hand, people that know CSS very well will not need suddenly tailwind to get some utility classes.

Yeah, I wrote CSS without Tailwind for 15 years. I don’t need it. I’m just 10x more productive with it. If you don’t want to learn new things that’s fine.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#439

Post by MR4D »

cdelsolar wrote: post #415
keyle wrote: post #140

Gray beard's 5c: Tailwind is a farce and a catastrophe. It's as modern as the style parameter is, and it's as reusable as a moving a dirt pile from one corner to the next. You're not learning anything valuable by learning Tailwind. Learn CSS, that will stick with you for the next 20 years. It amuses me when a library is implemented 'with tailwind', which means it's totally useless to the people _not using tailwind_,…

Even grayer beard's 5c (well, I'm still under 40, but still): You could not pay me enough to learn CSS. Every time I have to debug CSS there go many valuable hours of my life. With an insane amount of trial and error and judicious use of Chrome's dev tools I can usually hack some garbage together, until the next time I have to figure out how to remove the background of a button. In the literal 90s I was building full…

> It's a disaster. How did it get this way?

It’s called “progress” apparently, and older gray beards complained about it when we reinvented the mainframe through the same methodology.

For all of the re-use that us computer folks talk about, we surely reinvent the wheel an awful lot. I’m guessing that we have some sort of stubborn creative streak that causes it all. That’s my excuse at least.

Re: Why Tailwind CSS Won

#440

Post by _0w8t »

cdelsolar wrote: post #415
keyle wrote: post #140

Gray beard's 5c: Tailwind is a farce and a catastrophe. It's as modern as the style parameter is, and it's as reusable as a moving a dirt pile from one corner to the next. You're not learning anything valuable by learning Tailwind. Learn CSS, that will stick with you for the next 20 years. It amuses me when a library is implemented 'with tailwind', which means it's totally useless to the people _not using tailwind_,…

Even grayer beard's 5c (well, I'm still under 40, but still): You could not pay me enough to learn CSS. Every time I have to debug CSS there go many valuable hours of my life. With an insane amount of trial and error and judicious use of Chrome's dev tools I can usually hack some garbage together, until the next time I have to figure out how to remove the background of a button. In the literal 90s I was building full…

There are plenty of web site builders that allow for a drag-and-drop construction. But people who use them are not programmers.

I.e. programming is not supposed to be easy. So if one sticks to it, the problem has to be hard at least from the management point of view.

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