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NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

netmaker.io

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Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#71

Post by ignoramous »

GhostWhisperer wrote: post #15
jeroenhd wrote: post #2

The feature list reminded me of Tailscale so I went looking and found this on their website: https://www.netmaker.io/resources/tailscale-vs-zerotier Their comparison graph at the bottom seems to indicate that the differentiating features between their product and Tailscale is that you can't self-host (ignoring the existence of headscale) and that WireGuard support is limited. I believe the latter point refers to the…

1. thanks for linking that 2. the comparison: - protocol: wireguard is now baseline - speed: netmaker is faster because it uses kernel wg - this is not going to hold true for all system configurations, certainly doesn't for macos - flexibility: feels like it does the same as tailscale, marketed slightly different as they list common use-cases – egress and ingress gateways; network shaping with acls is also possible i…

> - speed: netmaker is faster because it uses kernel wg - this is not going to hold true for all system configurations, certainly doesn't for macos

Unless something changed super recently, tailscale (per their own claims) are faster than (linux) kernel wg: https://tailscale.com/blog/throughput-improvements/

  Surprisingly, we improved the performance of wireguard-go (running in userspace) enough to make it faster than WireGuard (running in the kernel) in the best conditions. But, this point of comparison likely won’t be long-lived: we expect the kernel can do similar things.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#72

Post by neilalexander »

intelVISA wrote: post #65
rudasn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik, tailscale recently made changes to their go user space implementation that actually made their version faster than the kernel implementation, at least in some cases. I remember reading a blog post on tailscacles' website about it and how they are pushing their changes upstream (wg kernel and official wg go user space implementation). Can't find the post now though.

Go is a bit too slow for performant networking - not sure why people are hell-bent on forcing it into such spaces where it doesn't fit.

This is not true. When it comes to networking, most languages (Go included) are bottlenecked at context switching for syscalls.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#73

Post by api »

ignoramous wrote: post #70
minimalist wrote: post #7

Related, from earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 Wherein the author compares Yggdrasil, tinc, Tailscale, Zerotier, Netmaker, Nebula, and ends up prefering Yggdrasil. Actually, it was this comparison that made me look into Netmaker and prefer it and I've been running it without issue for experimentation. I hope the author revisits NM. I agree that the project is moving quickly, which resu…

> Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs. Except at the time of writing, netmaker isn't FOSS: https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.t...

Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies.

“Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.”

People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that. The authors have to focus on creating while others can focus only on marketing.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#74

Post by progbits »

api wrote: post #73
ignoramous wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs. Except at the time of writing, netmaker isn't FOSS: https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.t...

Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that.…

NetMaker homepage says "backed by Ycombinator" so I doubt they are free labor.

I sympathize to some degree, but true OSS is an important distinction for many and should be highlighted.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#75

Post by fer »

minimalist wrote: post #7

Related, from earlier this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35584533 Wherein the author compares Yggdrasil, tinc, Tailscale, Zerotier, Netmaker, Nebula, and ends up prefering Yggdrasil. Actually, it was this comparison that made me look into Netmaker and prefer it and I've been running it without issue for experimentation. I hope the author revisits NM. I agree that the project is moving quickly, which resu…

I'd add to that list Netbird, which is the one I ended up using after trying all of the above.

https://netbird.io/

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#76

Post by fmajid »

api wrote: post #73
ignoramous wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docs are written for self-hosters. These are all good signs. Except at the time of writing, netmaker isn't FOSS: https://github.com/gravitl/netmaker/blob/16d5b5807/LICENSE.t...

Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that.…

I don't have much sympathy for that argument. AGPL (or dual-licensed AGPL + commercial) is the simple countermeasure for freeloaders. Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#77

Post by Lucasoato »

Wouldn’t it be better if companies invested more in improving Wireguard and other open source solutions?

How can you trust another company for such an important security service like VPN? What if one of their employees sells you out to the best offer?

In the build vs buy equation, often people forget that if you don’t own the keys of your door, you risk someone locks you out.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#79

Post by j1elo »

fmajid wrote: post #76
api wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that.…

I don't have much sympathy for that argument. AGPL (or dual-licensed AGPL + commercial) is the simple countermeasure for freeloaders. Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.

Didn't seem to be such of a silver bullet for MongoDB, which used AGPL and still were forced to abandon it in favor of an even stronger version made by themselves (the SSPL, which is an AGPL on steroids).

I'm not sure if there are more such cases, but clearly with this one, AGPL was not enough.

I guess the issue is: if you have freeloaders, who are making all the money you would need to keep the OSS project alive, AGPL doesn't help you in any way. They are free to get the code as-is, run it, and serve their customers. Not sure why everybody suggests AGPL+Commercial as the perfect solution, it doesn't seem to solve anything for that case.

Re: NetMaker: Connect Everything with a WireGuard VPN

#80

Post by freyes »

fmajid wrote: post #76
api wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liberal licenses are alive and well for libraries but for finished and polished products expect more of this. People are tired of being free labor for hustlers and billion dollar companies. “Thanks for all the work, we’ll take that and put it behind a paywall and monetize it for you and not give you anything.” People other than the author have a huge advantage when it comes to monetizing: they can focus only on that.…

I don't have much sympathy for that argument. AGPL (or dual-licensed AGPL + commercial) is the simple countermeasure for freeloaders. Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.

> Most tech companies won't touch it with a 20-foot pole.

This!, in my experience lawyers will deny the use of AGPL software, even when there is no risk (from my point of view). Many companies have already a list of blessed licenses, and AGPL is not part of the ones I'm aware of.

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