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How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

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Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#51

The whole tirade on rigorous proofs and colonial mindset puzzles me. From my understanding (I am European ...), rigorous proofs were increasingly seen as a need because as things like calculus progressed, any loose definition had a tendency to become a minefield. Think of the definition of derivatives, continuity. Also, at a time where things were getting mechanize because we could and it was a gain, it was natural t…

I'm a little confused by your description – it doesn't seem like a tirade at all (and indeed "colonial" is the interviewer's phrase), or even a judgment on anything: more like a sober conversation about the history of mathematics, the introduction of proof, the role of the Western tradition, and what "mathematical thought" has looked like elsewhere.

I might suggest we're seeing the word "colonialism" and jumping to assumptions.

I think there's a quote that illustrates her argument more accurately:

  We might marvel at, say, Amish people raising a barn or Inuit people building a kayak without any European formal maths training. We might declare that this is maths — and I think it is. But it’s problematic if we think we’re doing them some great honour by bestowing the label of maths on what they do.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#52

I appreciated Eugenia Cheng's youtube lectures on category theory and I know interviews aren't the best format for sustained exposition, but the remark about mathematical rigor being a European colonialist thing seemed pretty forced. If anything, it underestimates the strangeness of the history of math in an effort to cram it into a simple frame: "Europeans bad". There was something distinctive about work in foundati…

I've talked about this in a replay to another comment, but I don't think she's making any value judgment in the article, or (at least in the article) actually articulating any claim about colonialism and mathematics. In fact, I don't even think she's saying "Europeans bad":

  We might marvel at, say, Amish people raising a barn or Inuit people building a kayak without any European formal maths training. We might declare that this is maths — and I think it is. But it’s problematic if we think we’re doing them some great honour by bestowing the label of maths on what they do.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lamented this effect of the paper writing process for some time. I think a paper should present the steps taken by the authors to arrive at the new results, not just the new results in isolation. Those steps often provide so much useful insight.

I think so too, but then, (many/most) papers will need to be 2x or 3x longer - which is fine by me, but conferences and journals have strict length limits.

Maybe the scratch notes could be published outside of the paper itself. It’s not an ideal solution, of course, because links can go stale. But maybe it’s a starting point.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#54

The whole tirade on rigorous proofs and colonial mindset puzzles me. From my understanding (I am European ...), rigorous proofs were increasingly seen as a need because as things like calculus progressed, any loose definition had a tendency to become a minefield. Think of the definition of derivatives, continuity. Also, at a time where things were getting mechanize because we could and it was a gain, it was natural t…

I've just finished reading Feyerabend's Tyranny of Science which goes down a very similar path to OP's interview:

>In this wide-ranging and accessible book Feyerabend challenges some modern myths about science, including the myth that ‘science is successful’. He argues that some very basic assumptions about science are simply false and that substantial parts of scientific ideology were created on the basis of superficial generalizations that led to absurd misconceptions about the nature of human life. Far from solving the pressing problems of our age, such as war and poverty, scientific theorizing glorifies ephemeral generalities, at the cost of confronting the real particulars that make life meaningful. Objectivity and generality are based on abstraction, and as such, they come at a high price. For abstraction drives a wedge between our thoughts and our experience, resulting in the degeneration of both. Theoreticians, as opposed to practitioners, tend to impose a tyranny on the concepts they use, abstracting away from the subjective experience that makes life meaningful. Feyerabend concludes by arguing that practical experience is a better guide to reality than any theory, by itself, ever could be, and he stresses that there is no tyranny that cannot be resisted, even if it is exerted with the best possible intentions.

In other words: there's a 'tacit knowledge' that we ignore by just writing down what we can measure in numbers. Feyerabend died before it became en vogue to talk about colonialism's impact, but his points are similar. (This ties in with her gut feeling: the scientific literature pretends the gut feeling does not exist, we invent a logical story of how we've deduced an insight after we've stumbled over the insight)

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so too, but then, (many/most) papers will need to be 2x or 3x longer - which is fine by me, but conferences and journals have strict length limits.

Maybe the scratch notes could be published outside of the paper itself. It’s not an ideal solution, of course, because links can go stale. But maybe it’s a starting point.

Or better still, stop pretending there's any real limit on how long a publication can be.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#56

I have a PhD in math, did some successful research, but left math for a variety of personal reasons. My advice: 1. Network, network, network. Get famous or established mathematicians interested in your work. 2. Be a minority. Due to the prevailing ideology of academia, it's much easier to be successful if you are a minority. (I am not saying it doesn't take hard work, but the competition is not as extreme due to inte…

I'm curious: what field did you work in? One of my reasons for not pursuing math was going to a summer undergrad research mentoring thing by a well-known-enough American algebraic topologist (the field that Eugenia works in), and finding out that even his students were having problem getting positions in higher ed in the US that weren't temporary – that was simply the state in general academia, with an ageing professoriate.

Maybe I should add a 5th point, but I need to phrase it very cautiously.

5. If you're interested in doing mathematics in an institution of higher ed in the US, focus your work on teaching, and be prepared to live in the middle of nowhere.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#57

The whole tirade on rigorous proofs and colonial mindset puzzles me. From my understanding (I am European ...), rigorous proofs were increasingly seen as a need because as things like calculus progressed, any loose definition had a tendency to become a minefield. Think of the definition of derivatives, continuity. Also, at a time where things were getting mechanize because we could and it was a gain, it was natural t…

I've just finished reading Feyerabend's Tyranny of Science which goes down a very similar path to OP's interview: >In this wide-ranging and accessible book Feyerabend challenges some modern myths about science, including the myth that ‘science is successful’. He argues that some very basic assumptions about science are simply false and that substantial parts of scientific ideology were created on the basis of superfi…

The scientific literature pretending that gut feeling does not exist, is, in my own opinion, a legend. Most discoveries/invention were stumbled upon by collective efforts, a bit of intuition, lots of work, and a share of luck. Once something is found/made, then we clean up so as it can be shared and taught.

Scientists always had gut feelings, routinely shared and share their feelings, it's what makes most of discussion between scientists. It was always ok to have feelings. However, to build something somewhat reliable, feelings are not enough, so you do the work to turn a feeling into a falsifiable theory that ypu put to the test.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#58
The author teaches maths to art students. The paragraph on maths research:

  But now I realize that, in maths research, you don’t just follow logical steps. If you do, you’ll never get anywhere interesting. You have to use your gut instinct and feel your way through something first, and then back it up with logic afterwards.
Opposite to TFA, in school, I gave up on maths because explanations were not provided; you had to take things on faith (e.g. algebra of limits, epsilon-delta proofs were not given), and the questions were carefully manufactured to be solvable by the given methods. i.e. puzzle-solving, not general powerful methods. Also, no proof of the uniqueness of prime factorization.

TBF, it's hard to load proofs on to school students, and since Euclid was dropped, the focus is on technicians and results - not truth. But it can be done: spend the time on building foundations; or omit subjects where you can't. I'd like an axiomatic approach.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#59
Alternatively, just do whatever obscure research you want outside of the university system. There won't be anyone to judge your 'success' or lack of it.

When was the last time these mathematicians received feedback from the outside world instead of just deciding within their group who to declare as #1? They literally get paid by tax payers to do what is often the equivalent of glorified crosswords full time then congratulate themselves that they're good at it.

Re: How to be successful as a research mathematician? Follow your gut

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just finished reading Feyerabend's Tyranny of Science which goes down a very similar path to OP's interview: >In this wide-ranging and accessible book Feyerabend challenges some modern myths about science, including the myth that ‘science is successful’. He argues that some very basic assumptions about science are simply false and that substantial parts of scientific ideology were created on the basis of superfi…

The scientific literature pretending that gut feeling does not exist, is, in my own opinion, a legend. Most discoveries/invention were stumbled upon by collective efforts, a bit of intuition, lots of work, and a share of luck. Once something is found/made, then we clean up so as it can be shared and taught. Scientists always had gut feelings, routinely shared and share their feelings, it's what makes most of discussi…

Yes: "Eureka!", benzene ring, https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Eureka_effect

BTW TFA uses "feelings" in two different senses: hunch, inkling, intuition, suspicion, gut instinct vs. emotion (as in music).

In mathematics, there is even the formal term "conjecture" for an unproven theorem.

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