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The OpenTF Manifesto

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81–90 of 392 posts

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#81
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the financial institution made up of separate legal entities which bill each other for services, and does one of those entities provide tech infra for the other legal entities?

Good point, but no. Also I think they pay Hashicorp for support.

The messiness of the real-world unfortunately doesn't play well with ambiguity in licences :)

It'll be a headache for every large company which now has to send the licence to their legal teams who have to ask these kind of questions (another interesting one is "can contractors touch our terraform setup?") - in fairness to Hashicorp they've tried to address some of these issues in their FAQ, but the FAQ isn't legally binding so legal teams have to go on what's actually written in the licence.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#82
Ask Roblox employees how they feel about Hashicorp products. Terraform is probably the most solid product they have seconded by vault, but after hearing the consul and nomad horror stories, I don't think I could take their products seriously ever, not when kubernetes is setting right there.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#83
post #4

Part of me hopes a fork comes out of this. I mean maybe features like this PR[1] for local state file encryption can then finally get merged. [1] https://github.com/hashicorp/terraform/pull/28603

Hashi got really good at ignoring PRs if they weren't their own. They even ignored the PRs coming from the dev teams of their own customers (ie users of TF Cloud and Enterprise) which speaks volumes about their willingness to listen to the community...

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#84
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is that a fork hurts everyone. Imagine a future CTO trying to pick the IaC tools for their company. They see Terraform as an option, but then learn there are multiple forks, licensing questions, and a big battle happening in the community. What do they do? They are now way more likely to pick a different tool that is genuinely open source. The same is true of every dev considering where to build their caree…

Imagine a future CTO trying to pick the IaC tools for their company. They see Terraform as an option, but then learn there are multiple forks, licensing questions, and a big battle happening in the community. What do they do? I truly believe that a CTO who sees Terraform as an option and who isn't scared off by the BSL, but then has all of these other concerns, exists only in fantasy.

Lots of people still using elastic, mongo, and redis.

What's different about this one?

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#85
post #66
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this may be a miscommunication. Terraform itself has a test suite, yeah, but it doesn't have a testing framework that users of the language can use to test their own code. To make a python metaphor, if cpython had a testing suite but pytest didn't exist then people wouldn't be able to test their own python code. That's kind of the situation with Terraform right now- you can't test your code using just the Terr…

It isn’t a miscommunication, jen20 is astroturfing for hashicorp. Look at all of their recent posts.

"Astroturfing"... lol OK. I don't think I've ever made it a secret that I worked for HashiCorp in the early days (leaving in 2017), and have been critical to the point of being banned by the CEO from speaking at HashiConf.

Saying "Terraform doesn't have a test suite" is not miscommunication, it is misinformation, plain and simple - the same as most of the other things I have been correcting this week (not least from the same poster in this thread - someone who's clearly has an axe to grind).

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#86

I appreciate the letter and trying to work with Hashicorp -- I used to have a ton of respect for Hashicorp. But honestly... at this point... ...just fork it into a foundation. Don't wait for Hashicorp's response. I get wanting to have the appearance of working with Hashicorp, but we've been shown again, and again, and again, and a-fucking-gain that private corporations cannot be trusted to maintain public goods. Only…

Marcin here, co-founder of Spacelift. Even though I strongly believe the OpenTF fork could open up incredible possibilities for the community (I could go on and on about it), it is an equivalent of a civil war. It doesn't serve the community and our only interest is in the continued strength of the community that we continue to build for. Based on my immense respect for what's been built under Hashi's umbrella I'd ra…

Hi Marcin,

I recognize you're in interesting position in Spacelift. Per your recent analyses you may not be impacted and in this case you probably do not want to pissoff Hashicorp folks :)

In reality though force better be responded with force and showing Hashcorp what what was Terraform will be successful as Open Source project with or without them is best way to get them to reconsider.

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#87
post #76

Terraform core is kinda crappy. The language is awful, and the module infrastructure sucks. I would support (with my own money) a fork that would re-use the Terraform providers, and reimplement the language as something not so insane.

The CUE community has some experiments, we were chatting about it recently, given the upheaval

Imagine if that language covered more of the stack then just one tool too!

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#89
We at Oxide were honored to be asked to add our name to OpenTF Manifesto. Our statement:

At Oxide, our vision has been that on-premises infrastructure is deserving of a system consisting of both hardware and software, at once integrated and open. Ensuring Terraform users can easily deploy to Oxide has been essential for realizing this vision: we want customers of an Oxide rack to be able to use the tools that they know and love! And while HashiCorp's move to the BSL does not immediately affect Oxide (our Terraform provider is and remains MPLv2), we recognize that the ambiguity in both the license and HashCorp's language has created widespread concern that gives customers pause. We support the OpenTF efforts to assure an open source Terraform. It is our preference to see an MPLv2 Terraform as led by HashiCorp, and we join the call from the OpenTF signatories for HashiCorp to renew its social contract with the community by reverting the change of Terraform to the BSL. That said, we also agree with OpenTF's fallback position: a BSL-licensed Terraform is not in fact tenable; if Terraform must be forked into a foundation to assure its future, we will support these efforts. Open source comprises the foundation of the modern Internet, and is bigger than one company: it is the power of us all together to determine our fate. But we cannot take that foundation for granted -- and we must be willing to work to exercise that power to assure an open source future.

Thank you to the consortium here that is coming together to guide Hashi to see the wisdom in an open source Terraform!

Re: The OpenTF Manifesto

#90

Ask Roblox employees how they feel about Hashicorp products. Terraform is probably the most solid product they have seconded by vault, but after hearing the consul and nomad horror stories, I don't think I could take their products seriously ever, not when kubernetes is setting right there.

Could you elaborate on these horror stories?
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