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Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

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Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#201

Post by johngladtj »

dang wrote: post #159
predictabl3 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of user hostile moderation practices that occur on this site, manual and automatic. They're not often, or really at all, discussed. Some of them don't work well, and haven't for as long as they've existed.

I don't want us to be user hostile. Can you link to some examples?

I would consider any moderation action that isn't visible to users to be user hostile.

If you're going to censor someone, you owe it to them to be honest about what you're doing to them.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#202

Post by em-bee »

rhaksw wrote: post #189
em-bee wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

platforms that use secretive moderation lend themselves to spammers how is that? i can understand it not being useful, but how would it help spammers?

Spammers game the system while good-faith users get edged out. Spammers are determined actors who perceive threats everywhere, whereas good-faith users never imagine that a platform would secretly remove their content. Today, you see low quality content on social media, not because the world is dumb, but because the people who get their message out know the secret tricks. Secret suppression is extremely common [1]. M…

so to spammers shadowbanning makes no difference, but good-faith users somehow get discouraged even if they don't know they are shadowbanned just because they get no reaction to their posts? how is an explicit ban any less discouraging?

i can't see how shadowbanning makes things worse for good-faith users. and evidently it does work against spammers here on HN (though we don't know if it is the shadow or the banning that makes it effective, but i'll believe dang when he says that it does help)

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#204

Post by altairprime »

dang wrote: post #155
rhaksw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Content moderation systems often hide mod actions from the content author [1]. That's a secret. The opposite would be to show the author of the content some indicator that it's been removed, and I would call that transparent or disclosed moderation. Interestingly, your comment first appeared to me as "* * *" with no author [2]. I wonder if that is some kind of ban. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e6BIkKBZpg [2]…

It's not a ban. It appears when the user has 'delay' in their profile set to N minutes and N minutes haven't elapsed yet. We should probably make this more explicit. Re the 'delay' setting see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html .

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#205

Post by mensetmanusman »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #184
nvm0n2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a phishing/malware scan gone wrong then. NYTimes has Twitterbot in its robots.txt which might be related? Even if it's deliberate, I don't see how people can complain. Google has outright blocked Breitbart for years. They prevent results from that domain from appearing at all unless you specifically force it with site: and apparently HN does the same. Politically motivated censorship and restricting "reach"…

Does the value Breitbart adds to the internet outweigh the negatives of turning people into dangerous fascists by weaponizing misinformation? No. Does the value added by sources like the NYT outweigh the negatives of being occasionally biased or outright wrong? Yes.

NYT has arguably done far more damage to the world (Iraq, etc.) than Breitbart has.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#206

Post by networkchad »

dang wrote: post #20
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com max…

Why not publish the list? Users would know what not to submit in that case. Except maybe you’re worried about the list being heavily curated a certain way…

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#207

Post by joenot443 »

dang wrote: post #20
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Well, yes, many sites are banned on HN. Others are penalized (see e.g. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... ). None of this is secret, though we don't publish the lists themselves. Edit: about 67k sites are banned on HN. Here's a random selection of 10 of them: vodlockertv.com biggboss.org infoocode.com newyorkpersonalinjuryattorneyblog.com moringajuice.wordpress.com surrogacymumbai.com max…

That's a lot of domains! Did you source that from some other list, or is that a result of 67k individual entries? Either way, I appreciate it.

Out of curiosity, what's the rationale for blocking archive.is? Legal reasons I assume?

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#208

Post by mrguyorama »

dang wrote: post #148
mutant_glofish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how was the decision made to ban Federalist, but not say Guardian or The Daily Beast? Do you have any process in place to ensure that your political biases don't influence the list, or you don't care about that?

We don't have "processes" at HN. The idea makes my skin crawl. Plenty of both left- and right-wing sites are banned and/or downweighted on HN. When a site is primarily about political battle, we either ban it or downweight it. Which of the two we choose depends on how likely the site is to produce the occasional interesting article (in HN's sense of the word "interesting"). That's why The Federalist and World Workers…

>If you or anyone thinks that HN moderation is unfairly ideologically biased, I'm open to the critique, but you guys need to first look at the site as it actually is, and not just look at your own pre-existing perceptions.

Since when has moderation actions and relevant data been made available to the lay public here? We cannot look at the site as it actually is. We either have to trust you or pound sand.

>Stop and think about that—it's kind of amazing. Someone should write a PhD thesis about it.

Just because (you think) everyone feels persecuted doesn't mean you're doing a good job keeping things level. It's a common joke to make but it's just a joke. Similarly, if both a rampant nazi, and a fierce tankie hate you, that doesn't make you a bastion of democracy. "Fairness" doesn't mean pissing off everyone equally, and that is neither a necessary or sufficient condition.

These are just minor notes, don't take them too seriously

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#209

Post by gmerc »

pavlov wrote: post #23
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

The difference is that HN is explicitly heavily moderated while Twitter pretends to be an equitable free speech platform.

Unless you disagree with Elon

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#210

Post by mrguyorama »

xNeil wrote: post #86
chasing wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I came to HN because it seemed to be a place of free dialogue. > It's certainly under no obligation to promote right-wing propaganda and hate. It's certainly under no obligation to promote any propaganda or hate. That's what makes the site great. The HN crowd is not your average layman - it's largely well read and educated people. Why not let them decide what is propaganda and what's not (as opposed to some arbitrary…

>The HN crowd is not your average layman - it's largely well read and educated people.

People need to stop thinking this. There's no filter in front of the HN sign up. The community here is the same as the community anywhere else on the internet. We aren't special

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